The Oil Company Spin Machine Shifts into High Gear
The curse of traveling (I am in Europe until Monday): CNN. During the run up to the Iraq War and during its early stages, CNN was a cheerleader for the Bush administration and too busy to ask any of the questions the media failed to ask – thousands of lives ago.
Watching CNN this week was a chance to see the oil company spin machine in high gear, and much of it aimed at Bolivia and Evo Morales' decree “nationalizing” oil and gas reserves (see Blog posting below).
There was the CEO of Shell, explaining the ridiculousness of calls for a windfall profits tax in the face of the exorbitant profits that Shell and other oil companies have been making as prices at the US pump soar over $3 per gallon. We use that money to invest, the dapper executive explained. And his views on the wave of nationalizations of oil and gas, including Bolivia's. Dell, they need us. They need our technologies and management.
So let us get this straight. Bolivia needs to turn over ownership of its gas and oil reserves to the likes of Shell in order to get access to their drills and refineries, and their high-paid executives. Too bad CN didn't have it together to ask if that was the same technological genius that Shell's subsidiary, Transredes, demonstrated in January 2000 when - after years of ignoring warnings that their pipelines were a disater waiting the happen - disaster happened. Millions of acres of indiginous farmland were destroyed along the Disaguadero River, leaving behind a trail of contaminated water, useless land, at least one dead child, and sheep born with birth defects like a cyclops eye and 25 centimeter tounge.
Shell – Technology for a Better Future.
Then CNN brought on Thomas Friedman of the New York Times to act as if he had just invented some new miracle theory that high oil prices and climbing revenues for oil producing countries also means increased corruption and conflict. People have been writing about “the resource curse” for years. I guess Friedman just decided it was worth using to advance his writing career a little more. He argued that countries like Venezuela were using oil revenues to finance “bread and circuses” for their people. Well Thomas, that and free medical and dental clinics along with subsidized food stores. What silliness on Venezuela's part, no?
Is he arguing that the people of Venezuela and Bolivia will really be better off when oil prices go down and the money declines, or if they give oil companies a bigger share? Hmmm, do you think there might be an option out there where the poor nations that produce oil and gas get to have the money and also become more democratic? But, that wouldn't make such an interesting op-ed for Friedman, would it?
Make what you will of the Bolivia decree this week but one thing is clear, the message. If it is under our ground it is ours and if foreign companies want a pice of the action they had better be prepared for real negotiations, not giveaways behind closed doors.
Watching CNN this week was a chance to see the oil company spin machine in high gear, and much of it aimed at Bolivia and Evo Morales' decree “nationalizing” oil and gas reserves (see Blog posting below).
There was the CEO of Shell, explaining the ridiculousness of calls for a windfall profits tax in the face of the exorbitant profits that Shell and other oil companies have been making as prices at the US pump soar over $3 per gallon. We use that money to invest, the dapper executive explained. And his views on the wave of nationalizations of oil and gas, including Bolivia's. Dell, they need us. They need our technologies and management.
So let us get this straight. Bolivia needs to turn over ownership of its gas and oil reserves to the likes of Shell in order to get access to their drills and refineries, and their high-paid executives. Too bad CN didn't have it together to ask if that was the same technological genius that Shell's subsidiary, Transredes, demonstrated in January 2000 when - after years of ignoring warnings that their pipelines were a disater waiting the happen - disaster happened. Millions of acres of indiginous farmland were destroyed along the Disaguadero River, leaving behind a trail of contaminated water, useless land, at least one dead child, and sheep born with birth defects like a cyclops eye and 25 centimeter tounge.
Shell – Technology for a Better Future.
Then CNN brought on Thomas Friedman of the New York Times to act as if he had just invented some new miracle theory that high oil prices and climbing revenues for oil producing countries also means increased corruption and conflict. People have been writing about “the resource curse” for years. I guess Friedman just decided it was worth using to advance his writing career a little more. He argued that countries like Venezuela were using oil revenues to finance “bread and circuses” for their people. Well Thomas, that and free medical and dental clinics along with subsidized food stores. What silliness on Venezuela's part, no?
Is he arguing that the people of Venezuela and Bolivia will really be better off when oil prices go down and the money declines, or if they give oil companies a bigger share? Hmmm, do you think there might be an option out there where the poor nations that produce oil and gas get to have the money and also become more democratic? But, that wouldn't make such an interesting op-ed for Friedman, would it?
Make what you will of the Bolivia decree this week but one thing is clear, the message. If it is under our ground it is ours and if foreign companies want a pice of the action they had better be prepared for real negotiations, not giveaways behind closed doors.

The Democracy Center, based in Cochabamba Bolivia and San Francisco California, works globally to advance human rights through a combination of investigation and reporting, training citizens in the art of public advocacy, and organizing international citizen campaigns. If you like the Blog, consider becoming a subscriber to The Democracy Center's free e-newsletter by sending us an email at 
65 Comments:
Jim and others,
I have been apalled for some time with the Miami Herald's coverage of Bolivia. More often than not, its reporter Tyler Bridges has skewed events, even misled readers, to, I'd imagine, buy his conservative viewpoint of events. Today, I sent the enclosed letter to Miami Herald editors. I encourage you to send your own such letters, send them to heraldEd@herald.com
While the Herald is not the only paper putting out garbage concerning recent events in Bolivia, its one of the most prominent, and in my view, its one of the worst repeat offenders.
Maybe the Democracy Center ought to start a Media Watch project?
Below is my letter to the Herald. I'd be interested as well in getting others thoughts on this.
To the editors:
We know your coverage of Bolivia has been supbar ever since Tyler Bridges began putting his conservative spin on events in that country. But how long do you think the public will buy your skewed, misleading coverage of that country?
This time, in today's report on the "emergency summit" between the presidents of Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia and Venezuela yesterday, your man Bridges continued to hit home his mistaken and offensive theme, no doubt sold to him by his buddies in the multinational gas
industry, that Bolivia is incapable of managing a gas
company and that "the cash-strapped state energy firm,
YPFB" will not be able to "reimburse foreign companies for their assets or undertake its own investment plans."
Bridges: your either naive to the self-interested rhetoric of gas multinationals, a conservative wart on journalism, or a moron. My guess is all of the above.
Bolivia will be awash with more gas money after Evo's
justified move, not just because it has a higher ownership stake, but when Bolivia begins to charge a
fair price for its gas the revenues will furthermore
increase for both Bolivia and those poor baby gas multinationals despite their lower percentage of gas ownership. In fact, when the price goes up to its fair level those companies you feel so sorry for may likely be swimming in profits as never before (no wonder that none of these companies is announcing they are leaving, instead they have agreed to negotiate with the government). And despite the image you are trying to present, nobody in the present Bolivian government is moving to expropriate foreign investments by gas multinationals. Au contraire: they are merely increasing the Bolivian
stake to majority control, 51 percent, to give the
country more control over, for example, the prices the
Brazilian state gas company PetroBras (yes, Brazil has a state gas company, too) wants to charge Brazilians for Bolivian gas, which currently amounts to stealing: Brazilians buy Bolivian gas at more than 50 percent less than the global average price for gas.
One final point, despite what the Bolivia gas chamber of commerce would have you believe, the huge
investment by gas multinationals since privatization had actually few real benefits for Bolivians. Gas multinationals did not increase government coffers as a result of their investments, but rather privatization caused the country to receive less revenue from the sector than when it was run by the state gas company, whom capably ran Bolivian gas projects for many decades before it was privatized. Go check the facts for yourself if you do not believe.
Bolivians of all political stripes have understandably
revolted and justifiably threw out the corrupt Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada in 2003 over this genuine screwup and giveaway of this poor nation's most lucrative asset. Now, Bolivians are back on track to controlling
their black gold and making it work to their benefit.
Sincerely,
Guillermo Holzmann
Just got a whiff of this piece of trash, too. I always thought the Independent was somewhat fair in its analysis. Till now.
Check out this link:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article361780.ece
How about we start a International Press Garbage Top Ten on Bolivia somewhere on your page. So much misinformation about Bolivia -- and Lat Am -- being spread round the world it makes me seriously, seriously, concerned.
OMG, this is funny.
Now this is priceless:
He argued that countries like Venezuela were using oil revenues to finance “bread and circuses” for their people. Well Thomas, that and free medical and dental clinics along with subsidized food stores. What silliness on Venezuela's part, no?
If you are going to be a Chavez-apologist at least make a small effort to make some sense, you might also want to use a fact or two.
PVDSA plain sucks, and Friedman is right Chavez uses some of that money to make big productions.
Who cares if some of that money goes to social services? Nothing new there. In Venezuela that has been the case for decades, under Social Democrats and military regimes alike. Given the fact that more housing for the poor was built under prior administrations, something tells me that this money is not even being spent efficiently.
What has only got worse is the massive scale of corruption and inefficiency at PVDSA, despite a staggering increase in resources.
The comapany can not even meet its OPEC production quotas, key investments are not being made. Chavez fired thousands of their best workers and replaced them with political hacks. The scope of money missing, is breathtaking. It is an open secret that Miami's current real estate boom is fueled by nouveau riche Venezuelan officials.
And lets not even talk about the other "welfare" in Venezuela, where petromoney, is going to buy off
wealthier opponents.
And that is an example for Bolivia, and the people conducting 'audits' nice...
The worst type of thievery possible + the inefficiency of the public sector. :p
Guillermiiiiiin, are you for real pal, are you asking the DEMOCRACY CENTER to complain about others miss informing, misleading readers??. Is this the first time you are reading the, as you put it, “garbage concerning events en Bolivia””, writing by the author of this blog?. Now, a Media Wach project; that is more like it, and surely is already a part of the job the new Bolivian government has asigned ONG like the democracy center under fascist Juan Ramón Quintana and Walker San Miguel.
Now, back to the post, Jim says that Shell said “they need us. They need our technologies and management.” And he interprets, ”So let us get this straight. Bolivia needs to turn over ownership of its gas and oil reserves to the likes of Shell in order to get access to their drills and refineries and their high-paid executives.”. I won’t continue copying the rest of the paragraph because Guillermo above doesn’t like miss informing and misleading, plain lying if you want.
No Jim, Shell did not told us they need to own anything, what they are telling you and the world is that Bolivia, Brazil, Venezuela, the USA, Mexico, etc, etc; need the technology and management skills of the hydrocarbon industries companies, the big international ones, the ones you whine about so much, are in charge of the most complicate aspects of the hydrocarbon productive chain. You do not need to be an expert on that, just research a little bit and you will find that the same big, mean, bad corporations are working in all of the countries I mentioned above. You will be surprise to note that companies like Shell, have also join ventures with other companies that give service to themselves or even their competitors. This is called globalizations, free market, or neo liberalism if you are in Bolivia's MAS party. Is the real world and is going to continue being the real world because communism, fascism, and national socialism (populism) already failed. That you do not want to believe it and are helping Bolivia to go back in time, is your sorry business.
About your last paragraph, “Make what you will of the Bolivia decree this week but one thing is clear, the message. If it is under our ground it is ours and if foreign companies want a piece of the action they had better be prepared for real negotiations, not giveaways behind closed doors.”
Do you or any body knows what is in this business for Chavez and PDVSA?, no, really?; then tell me, what is that real negotiation the MAS government is having here. Are you going to write about the giveaways behind closed doors PDVSA is receiving now when they pop to the light in the near future?. I will be surprised if you do.
bolivia libre, you are obviously a tool of the gas companies in bolivia, how much do they pay you to send around propaganda that bolivia is "libre" with them paying bolivia peanuts to sell bolivian gas at practically below costs prices to its bigger neighbors.
bolivia will be libre when they can use the gas to get out of poverty, and that was not going to happen under your hero goni's big idea.
pal, yes, bolivia needs technology and management, and the gas companies can help. welcome. but they got to play by bolivia's rules - thats good for bolivia libre. you don't see these companies running to the border now that evo has announced his nationalizarion policy. no, these companies are hanging out to make some more money. money can still be made under evo's scheme by private corporations. and if these companies go, there will absolutely be others to replace them. pdvsa, obviously, is already enthusiastically asking for a piece of the pie and they clearly have the know-how and certainly have the finance.
pero, tal vez eres ignorante porque no entendias ingles?
saludos
bol-nica,
i am no apologist for authoritarian chavez, but lets stop playing loose with the facts.
the whole world knows how corrupt venezuela was for decades under government after government after government prior to chavez. if you think pdvsa is bad now, you got a real bad memory.
actually, it looks to me like venezuela is enjoying boom times in its oil sector so much so that it is giving out hundreds of millions of dollars to its neighbors for debt cancellation, development projects, etc.
bolivia can only dream of having such problems.
Bolivia Libre, carajo!!
ahora, por favor, con todo respeto, le pido por favor que deje de usar tal nombre cuando tan obviamente no representa a Bolivia sino a sus propias opiniones.
Now, presenting my own opinion...
"BL" presents a fallacy common to the Media-Informed and the Corporate-Indoctrinated segments of the World population. That is, that Globalized Capitalism is the only form of social organization that can work, as proven by the demise of the Soviet Union, China's conversion, yada yada yada yada.
Soveit "socialism" or "communism" is dead, yes. Fine. Cuban socialism is deeply flawed, yes. Fine. But let us steer clear of these terms which seem to denote ideology but only really signify years of repression, personal and familiar oppression, denial of thought-freedom and Entreprenurial Freedom.
Let us examine the fact that Repsol and Total ILLEGALLY registered BOLIVIAS GAS as their own in the New York Stock Exchange. A company may only register hydrocarbon reserves IF, and ONLY IF, it has a market and SIGNED CONTRACT to deliver the TOTALITY OF THESE RESERVES to that market. However, both Total and Repsol DID NOT have contracts for the TOTALITY OF RESERVES reported on the exchange market. So, they lied. They violated United States law. They violated the rules of globalization.
Also, we have instances of certain transational companies DEFRAUDING the BOLIVIAN customs, by transporting gasoline or gas to Chile or Argentina without reporting. This was illegal. They broke Bolivian law. They violated the rules of globalization.
Also, as the recent Dem Center posts point out, Transredes ( I forget which "transnational" owned it, does it matter?) KNOWINGLY USED FAULTY PIPES which BROKE, causing devastating ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE, and harm to the communities affected. They broke Bolivian law. They violated the rules of globalization. Or does globalization mean that our laws are meaningless? Bolivia es libre y soberana, nobe?
So, enough of this anti-communist mumbo-jumbo. The only thing Evo, Alvaro, and MAS are doing, is making these fuckers follow the law.
You guys need to get a clue.
Guillermo.
Venezuela has always had corruption, it is built into the system.
But what is going on with PDVSA is the worst that has happened in its history. At least before Chavez it was run ok.
If you worked in PDSVA after their nationalization of oil in 1975, and you were doing a good job they would send you to get an advanced degree in the US or Europe. There were very good people at all levels of the corporation - technical and administrative. Chavez fired thousands of these people when he took over. As a result it is horribly run. There is little new exploration, or investment in needed equipment. Infrastructure is rotting away in some cases. Venezuela can not produce its OPEC quota.
Before anyone goes crying about how these oil companies are profiting, separate the oil from the gas. Petrobras, sunk a lot of money into the industry, at a time when Bolivia did not have any credit. I know as a fact that people from YFPB were going to Washington, Europe, Brazil, anywhere trying to get the International banks and development agencies to help develop the gas, no one wanted to lend one penny. The loans for the Brazil project actually ended up being guaranteed by the Brazilian government.
It was that Brazilian investment in the pipeline, and that initial project, spurred all the further explorations, that increased the proved gas reserves something like 10 times.
Of course, they should negotiate for higher prices, and get reasonable rates. But they should also remember how important that investment was in getting them to this stage.
for all the lemming whining about Goni and selling gas to Chile, had there not been that meltdown, Bolivia would be in a position to produce LNG, and send it abroad.
--but some idiots dont get that.
bolnica,
there are all kinds of clues, depends on what clues you are looking for.
it sounds like you have a close connection with the gas industry? you say you "know as a fact" that ypfb people were hunting for money prior to privatization, how so?
in any case, i am aware already of brazil's role in helping getting bolivia develop its gas reserves. what you say is true. i don't doubt it. but its also true that bolivia could have partnered up with brazil to do the same thing without wholesale privatizing of the sector and giving aways it gas for a paltry 18 percent royalty rate. thats got to be the lowest royalty charged on gas companies in the world! of course, under such a sweetheart deal, the investment dollars will come very fast and no wonder they "discovered" so much gas reserves in such a short period. but, again, bolivia could have accomplished the same thing without giving away its most valuable source of wealth.
brazil, for example, had already signed deals with the jaime paz zamora govt. to build a pipeline and develop gas fields as 50-50 partners with YPFB prior to Goni's privatization scheme.
i guess it comes down to this, bolnica. would you rather see foreign multinationals get richer with bolivian gas or would you rather see the bolivian gas used to help the poorest country in south america improve its development path? its clear that bolviia's best chance to get out of poverty is to use their most valuable resource as the way to finance a better economy. and i think that can be done while also allowing companies to make a reasonable profit -- which is what the evo government has stated they intend to do. a balance between public and private interest is possible, taking into account that this is also bolivia and bolivia must treat gas as the strategic resource it is.
look at chile, the region's free market king, it still has a state copper company and they are in no hurry to privatize it. especially now, with copper prices at record highs. believe it.
the gas protests over the past few years were the best thing that could ever possibly happen to bolivia. it saved bolivia for permanent poverty.
So the world is about to run out of hidrocarbons (the most alarmist experts say it night happen as soon as 2010). Bolivia has hidrocarbons. For once, they have realised they can be in a position of strenght, and can negotiate because they have something everybodfy wants. I know the Bolivian establishment is petrified because this move was most risky and audacious, but I think, isn't it time we play the game and stop being cautious and stupid? remember what Murillo said?
I know this position is very simple... and previous posts might be well more informed, but so far, I think the strategy is actually working!
Just out of curiosity, suppose the multinationals paid their 18% to the Bolivian government (most of which went to Tarija, not La Paz), spent 2% on expenses, and pocketed the remaining 80% as profit. Wouldn't the national government have been able to tax any of this profit?
If the multinationals instead paid huge salaries so that their was no profit, wouldn't income taxes still have to be paid?
Is it really fair to say that the multinationals "pocketed" 82% of the hydrocarbon production of Bolivia?
Wasn't Brazil recently demanding that the price of gas it bought from Bolivia be lowered? If they thought they were getting such a great deal, and I'm not saying they weren't, why would they even want to bring the subject up?
In 2003, the US hydrocarbon industry paid $5.4 billion in "severance and royalty" payments, while earning $97 billion in natural gas revenues and $57 billion in crude oil revenues. That's before refining. I did the math on the back of an envelope, and it comes out to something less than 18%. Of course, Americans have no idea what the oil and gas industry pays in royalties, or which governments actually receive payment, and I include myself in that statement.
http://www.ipaa.org/reports/econreports/IPAAOPI.pdf
Of course, if Bolivians already consumed all of the gas they produce or could produce, maybe they would be singing a different tune. Then the hope would be to get the gas for the lowest possible price, period.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if Saudi Arabia decided to close up shop for awhile. Very interesting.
for once I agree, Boli-Nica
credit is due for the discovery of the gas reserves to the capitalization process and the companies that invested.
but it is also fair to investigate possible corruption, misaccounting or production, tax-evasion, etc.
corporations are not angels, they are legal entities formed with the sole express purpose of generating profit, and our previous government has been all too willing to trust them and their numbers.
paul v., interesting questions/points.
yeah, you tax the gas companies. you have income taxes. and bolivia did/does do that. correct me if i am wrong, but i believe the grand total of taxes and royalties combined in the pre-gas war era was around 32-34 percent. guess how much that raked in for bolivia? in 2002, for ex., that grand total was approximately $200 million. guess how much bolivia earned from royalties/taxes from the gas sector prior to privatization. despite having ten times less gas reserves, bolivia earned $300 million. how many bolivians do you think get big multinational salaries in santa cruz? i can't be sure of the exact number, but it really can not be more than a 100-200 people at best. at best. that was one of the points of gas minister soliz rada the other day when he complained to the press there were hardly any bolivians at all working in the upper echelon of these companies. and piping gas to brazil and argentina hardly creates a ton of jobs, total employment in the gas sector is miniscule in comparison to other industries because the industry is heavy in technology.
despite the undeniable huge investment dollars, bolivia was getting back very little. in the last year, what did bolivia earn afer boosting up royalties and taxes to a combined 50 percent in Mesa's last days, about $350 million.
moreover, as culito blanco rightly points out, these folks are hardly angels. and guess who was one of bolivia's biggest investors in the gas industry until they imploded in 2002? enron. the infamous company which was forced into bankruptcy due in large measure to their tax evasion, lying, scheming accounting tricks. we can be fairly certain enron isn't the only multinational cheating on its taxes.
in sum, bolivians were being royally screwed by goni's gas privatization.
you say you "know as a fact" that ypfb people were hunting for money prior to privatization, how so?
Based on information at the time, and interviews afterward.
One top official during the Paz Zamora administration, made five trips alone to DC specifically for that purpose, to meet with people from the World Bank.
in any case, i am aware already of brazil's role in helping getting bolivia develop its gas reserves. what you say is true. i don't doubt it. but its also true that bolivia could have partnered up with brazil to do the same thing without wholesale privatizing of the sector and giving aways it gas for a paltry 18 percent royalty rate. thats got to be the lowest royalty charged on gas companies in the world! of course, under such a sweetheart deal, the investment dollars will come very fast and no wonder they "discovered" so much gas reserves in such a short period. but, again, bolivia could have accomplished the same thing without giving away its most valuable source of wealth.
You need to understand some things about the oil and gas industry.
People knew there was gas in Bolivia. But the only way to really find out how much gas is there is to explore, run a lot of tests, drill, and actually start extracting. And that costs a lot of money to do so, you need to move equipment to places in the middle of nowhere. And you also need ready access to production facilities, to process the stuff and send it out on a pipeline.
Once you are online like that, it creates a big incentive for other companies to follow suit and explore and drill in the surrounding area. They know that the odds are that there is more stuff around. Even finding a smaller field is worth the investmnent
And for established fields, the more you invest, normally the more you find, since it is easier to poke around in the same area where you are already.
Bolivia did not have the money to do this, and once Petrobras committed, everyone else came aboard, and found more reserves.
brazil, for example, had already signed deals with the jaime paz zamora govt. to build a pipeline and develop gas fields as 50-50 partners with YPFB prior to Goni's privatization scheme.
Wrong, there was much more to it. Goni actually threatened to cancel the project, and got Brazil to agree to buy a larger amount of gas at a higher price, and got ownership of a piece of the Brazilian side on the pipeline.
Just to dispel one myth.
The royalty rate of 18 percent is not a "real" tax rate, because the companies must also pay taxes on financial transactions as well as corporate taxes.
So if they are generating so much, they must also pay so much. They are technically Bolivian companies, and must pay Bolivian corporate taxes.
Not surprisingly, revenue collected from both these taxes has increased quite a bit too.
so you are a journalist, bol-nica?
this is a strange blog readership, many of you -- bolnica, paul v., and bolibre -- seem to be against everything jim and the democracy center stand for, it makes me wonder...
any blogs on bolivia from your point of view -- i'd like to go there and harrass some of them..
in any case, boli-nica, you sound like you got a good grasp of the gas industry but i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on whether its more important to protect the high returns on foreign investment than improve the lot of the bolivian people. for me its a no brainer.
Guillermo, I'm not against everything Jim stands for. At least I don't think I am. Unfortunately, I don't have any first hand knowledge of anything. All I know is what I read on the internet. When two sides have such widely divergent points of view, I start to wonder why. It is not every day that common people can blockade a few roads and overthrow a presidency, indeed, an entire system of government. It is a fascinating story.
What complicates the story are political buzzwords that are rarely if ever defined. Neoliberalism, privatization, nationalization, national assembly.
I am not seeing much in the way of actual revenue and expense figures from this Bolivian government or prior Bolivian governments. And I'm not convinced that I should believe any of the numbers I see should I see any.
There is a lot about economics that is currently beyond my comprehension. For example, a minimum wage of $62 a month is incomprehensible to me. No one in the United States could survive on such a small wage. My long term goal is to be able to understand how such wage differentials come about, and what it would take for them to "even out".
As far as Bolivia goes, why doesn't the government simply buy out a successful public multinational oil & gas company. The government could keep 100% of the companies profits, and it wouldn't have to worry about overpaid employees or cooked books. (Although it might have to change it's law about maximum government employee salaries.)
I wish Jim and his allies would come onto this board more often to explain and defend their positions. I don't really enjoy the eerie echo I hear all the time. But I do appreciate the public forum he has given us all access to.
Guillermo, there are numerous Bolivia related blogs..they are compiled here on Global Voices Onlne.
http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/-/world/americas/bolivia/
I am not a journalist, just a blogger. Have researched these issues for some courses I am took.
There are several bloggers writing about Bolivia in English and some Spanish. Interesting stuff, you have a professor of economics, a couple of people with advanced degrees in political science, a finance student.
http://evonomics.blogsome.com/
http://boliviateamo.blogspot.com/
http://www.barrioflores.net/weblog/
http://www.centellas.org/miguel/
http://mabb.blogspot.com/
http://b2bolivia.blogspot.com/
http://aruiznavajas.blogspot.com/
http://bolicarreras.blogspot.com/
Boy, I take the weekend off and you guys go at it;
Guillermin, I will like to answer to you, but there is nothing worth mention from your commentaries. But for once, I will lower myself to your level and using your logic; I will simply accuse you to being one of those Venezuelans that are currently making a good living in Bolivia; so that means that you are also a member, defender of a transnational, PDVSA.
Culito Blanco, voy a usar el nombre que me de la gana, cuando me de la gana y por el tiempo que me de la gana, te guste o no; incluso bajo la dictadura que está por venir y de la cual tu formas parte.
Now my comments about your post, I could also write quiet a bit over how Evo, Alvaro and MAS where the one’s fucking the law. Or what about Bolivian’s human rights; do you want me to give you an example of a viejito, over 65 years old, put illegally in prison just to show political strange. O no, let’s not do so, that happened when MAS was already in power.
What is important of your post, is “But let us steer clear of these terms which seem to denote ideology but only really signify years of repression, personal and familiar oppression, denial of thought-freedom and Entrepreneurial Freedom”
This, Culito, is not FINE, like you so simply put it; it has nothing to do with a free Bolivia, and believe me, not even MAS voters really want it. To bad those voters are so easily manipulate to believe what the neo populist want them to believe and will realize that they are repressed, oppressed and without freedom when they are dependant on their oppressors, MAS government, to eat. If you don’t want to believe me, go out and befriend one of the hundreds of Cuban doctors currently in the country, 5 dollars a month, In Cuba, not bad for a salary; of course, they get free housing and food, why should they need anything else?
Just to go back to Schultz original diatribe, where he gets all indignant about Shell and Transredes to somehow make the point that Bolivia and Venezuela would be better off and more democratic) if they kept the corporate meanies out
of oil production.
See, if we create big state monopolies to run these things, we really are giving these resources to the people....Dude...groovy......
GMAFB....
Check out what wonders PDVSA is doing in safety and environmental protection.
http://www.petroleumworld.com.ve/guillao050406.htm
they can't even do basic maintenance....
Duh......
In 1968, YPFB in Bolivia produced 8000 barrels of gas daily, it employed 4200 workers. Gulf Oil in contrast produced 33,000 barrels a day, and employed all of 200 people.
HEY PEOPLE, THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS MORE PRODUCTIVE AND EFFICIENT.
just creating a state agency and willing it to do a "good job" does not mean it will be as good as a private sector company.
This is a non-issue in most of the world. In the US and Europe most reasonable people, including people who are called "liberals" in the US.
And the reality is that policies based on open markets, sensible monetary and fiscal policies, and leaving production to the private sector is what is creatng growth in places like the Baltics, and in Asia.
Instead of pimping stupid ideas, and hating on the private sector, some of you should come up with smart ways to make sure that companies and governments learn to create agreements that are transparent and create wealth for everyone involved.
bolibre: go crawl back under that sack of shit from hence you came..
bolnica: can we say CODELCO, its only the world's largest producer of copper. pretty successful one, too. guess what, its a state run company in the heart of the free market beast that is chile. chichi lele
can we say, PETROBRAS, guess what, a pretty succesful state company in brazil, nowadays a state-private mix, but still an undeniable success..
but, before we go off disinforming the masses, bolivia is not proposing to run the show alone without private sector help, is it?
Bolivia's vice president just mandated an annual salary cap of $22,500. It sounds to me like they are infact proposing to run the show alone. You don't get a lot of private sector help at $10.82 an hour (assuming you only have to work a 9 to 5.)
hey stormin' norman, are u for real, or are you one of those freakos from the anal church of the twilight zone?
good lord, with that salary you could live like a king in bolivia -- i guess you don't know bolivia.
nevertheless, we can fairly well assume that ypfb is not going to be able to control the big salaries of its multinational partners. relax.
Anon... think about it. $10 an hour goes a long way in Bolivia, but these folks have unique skill sets that demand eight to ten times that. They may decide it isn't worth living here (yes, I live here) for 20K. and controlling the big salaries of multi-national partners is exactly what i believe is intended by getting 51% ownership of the company. Interesting first sentence though. Put as much thought into your argumnet as your do into your insults and you might do well.
ok, norman. you must be one of those high priced janitors from texas over at transredes. you certainly don't have the intelligence for much else judging by your comments on this blog.
really, you need help. the government was discussing ypfb, and not the private corporate partners, dufus. get it. really, think it through it will make sense next week maybe. i have faith in you, because you a church goer and all that. whats it like having your head up a butt?
bolnica: can we say CODELCO, its only the world's largest producer of copper. pretty successful one, too. guess what, its a state run company in the heart of the free market beast that is chile. chichi lele
can we say, PETROBRAS, guess what, a pretty succesful state company in brazil, nowadays a state-private mix, but still an undeniable success..
but, before we go off disinforming the masses, bolivia is not proposing to run the show alone without private sector help, is it?
Read my post... I am not against public/private partnerships. I am actually for clear and very transparent rules for this kind of arrangement, and for privitizations.
Petrobras has significant equity participation from private partners, and Cardozo eliminated its monopoly years ago.
As for Chile's copper companies, it has clear rules to be independent control from any government.
What is clear is this: in Latin America public sector direct involvemet in industry has been a disaster. Look at the disasters in Brazil, Mexico, Argentina and Venezuela. These companies dragged down entire economies. How the hell its going to work in a poorer and less advanced company like Bolivia in the 21st Century is beyond me.
Public sector companies operate without controls, end up being a place to collect money for the party in power. YFPB was that before, it will be that afterward.
So besides nationalizing it, Evo wants to also pretend they can be a good partner?
He is being an idiot about the whole thing, annoying present and potential partners. I dont want to invest in something as capital intesive as natural gas, where the government puts on stupid shows like that.
Again, exceptional insults. So, then what quality individuals will YPFB attract with $10 an hour? If you are right, it doesn't really change the point. It takes some exceptional individuals to run an industry. Anyone qualified can get more. In a "skills required" industry, when folks reach a certain skill set, they realize that they can do better and they move on. Is the VP counting on pure loyalty to fill the ranks? Anon, it's a popularity move prior to the Constitutional Assembly elections. Tio Hugo wants to stay in office 'til 2031 and Don Evo wants to be right there with him.
bolnica, now we're getting somewhere, so we can agree on something, that is not such a bad idea to have public-private partnerships.
as for codelco, in what sense is it "independent" from the government. the president of chile appoints the head of the company. also, you know that chile also has a state oil company, enap, and a state mining company, enami. according to various sources out there in cyberspace codelco is very efficient -- in fact its production costs for copper are among the lowest in the world. howz it possible?
still, in general, i agree with you. in many cases, i agree the state should privatize -- i think its a bad idea for bolivia to own an airline. i think privatizing the telephone industry was good for bolivia in that it improved a lot the nations communication infrastructure (though services and prices have suffered). but i can understand why a poor country like bolivia would want to use a highly valuable resource like gas to boost their country's overall fortunes. bolivia plan and simple needs it badly. this is not a pet cash cow for the whims of corrupt politicians -- this is about throwing a very poor country a lifeline. and when you factor in the idea that the country was not getting a whole lot out of it the other way -- what do they really have to lose?
it appears to me that the government wants to continue to partner up with private companies, but under a new set of rules that boosts up the potential benefits for the bolivian people while at the same time ensuring the privates get a return on their investment. thats not so terrible, is it really?
i will agree that evo does not seem like the type to enter into a business deal with, but on the other hand, given bolivia's majority indigenous population and what they have proved capable of over the past three years, i would say the gas company investments are a helluva a lot safer with someone like evo. at least he has popular support, he won the presidency with 54 percent of the vote. he therefore has legitimacy, which gives him a larger degree of stablity, and as we know, in investments, stability is a key interest.
the show? are you referring to the military surround gas facilities. i agree it was not the most diplomatic tactic, but on the other hand, it does put bolivia now in a position of strength when they go to the negotiating table. and they will go to the negotiating table -- have read that repsol and petrobras have recently accepted the government's invitation to do just that. moreover, i know that there are lot of great guys at these gas companies, but at the end of the day they are clearly not a bunch of angels and its not such a bad idea to make sure these folks don't try to take out the hard drives just as the government is about to do an audit.
"It appears to me that the government wants to continue to partner up with private companies, but under a new set of rules that boosts up the potential benefits for the bolivian people while at the same time ensuring the privates get a return on their investment. thats not so terrible, is it really?"
Yes, it is. The government is unilaterally breaking a contract and demanding a better deal. Actually, they are unilaterally breaking a contract unilaterally "renegotiated" only one year earlier, as a result of street protests which stifled and panicked the entire country.
"At least he has popular support, he won the presidency with 54 percent of the vote. he therefore has legitimacy, which gives him a larger degree of stablity, and as we know, in investments, stability is a key interest."
He only has stability until the next election, which in Bolivia, may be demanded at any time. And no, I'm not making a case for Castro-like stability. For Evo to claim that he has an everlasting "mandate" by winning one election with just 54% of the vote seems ludicrous.
I have great difficulty believing that Morales would voluntarily strike a fair bargain with any multinational company, or even any privately owned company for that matter. I have great difficulty believing that he would strike a bargain with the U.S. or with Chile. These people have always been his hated enemy.
He might tolerate these groups for awhile. But unless he comes to appreciate their benefits, he will never accept them.
i am beginning to get bored with trying to debate people who so obviously have their values confused and misplaced. what you need is not jim's blog, but you need to be re-born into a different class, a different skin color. then you will understand why what is happening in beloved bolivia is completely justified and a positive step in a better direction.
in answer to your bizarre screed: since when does bolivia have to sacrifice its future to a bunch of multinationals who have only one rule of thumb as their guide, how best they can maximize their greed. the contracts, which are dubious to begin with, were the result of a failed privatization scheme. every country in the world has the right to create new laws to correct mistakes in old laws. thats one of the great things about democracy.
and now you are already grouping evo with castro, your conservative bias has been revealed. a mandate is a mandate. president evo morales won in a landslide and he is right to do what the people voted him to do.
evo has been a critic of the us government, multinationals and chile, but he also is not an enemy of chileans or americans or businessmen...he has fought against policies, not peoples. to wit, when he was in chile recently paul he left saying that he felt more loved in chile than in bolivia. chileans gave him a huge welcome mat. this is not to say i do not think evo does not have his flaws, he does and he has many. but evo is also one man. the contracts are with bolivians, the vast, vast majority of which so clearly support what evo is doing.
great times we are living in, for once bolivia has started doing whats best for the majority, and what the majority truly wants, instead of continuing with the corrupt, failed ways of the past that favored an elitist minority with views such as yours.
"Since when does bolivia have to sacrifice its future to a bunch of multinationals who have only one rule of thumb as their guide, how best they can maximize their greed."
I won't deny that it is in the best interest of multinationals and individuals to make as much money as possible, but I suspect most businesses would be happy just to survive and keep their employees gainfully employed, while keeping their customers satisfied. Few people working for any corporation are actually getting rich (by Western standards).
By the way, Guillermo, how is a multinational different from a "national"? Do you trust any privately-owned company?
From the Associated Press today...
"I want you to know brothers, we have to be prepared; they are going to begin conspiring and provoking us," Morales said Sunday at a rural festival outside La Paz.
Political critics and landowners allied with an "international mafias that own media outlets" are working to protect the foreign companies whose profits are threatened by the nationalization, Morales said.
Morales presented no evidence for the accusations or for similar ones he made against the foreign energy companies in February.
---------------------
I wonder what Morales will do to these political critics and landowners. We certainly can't have political critics and landowners running around creating havoc.
Which media outlets are controlled by international mafias and which aren't? I'd like to know. I wouldn't want my views tainted by an international mafia.
---------------------
I assume Bolivia itself does not own large tracts of land with which it may break and distribute to the poor and landless. Morales will soon be distributing more land to the "poor", he is clearly going to have to take land away from current large landowners. My understanding is that land ownership in Bolivia is poorly documented, but if it is well documented, is it reasonable for the state to simply take it away from its current owner?
Do the Quechua and Aymara even believe in land ownership? Or would they say one only has right to land if they are using it to maintain their families survival or for the common good? And if it is being used for the common good, that usage is always up for question and negotiation. I certainly see a moral case for this type of viewpoint. Perhaps similar viewpoints can be found in the East.
I would hope that the ground rules for land confiscation can be somewhat clearly defined and discussed before significant action is taken.
Guillermo:
Bolivia at one point had the largest State ownership of industry in South America. And what happened? Like everywhere else it only benefitted those in power.
The State ends up being at the mercy of the present government, which gives money and jobs to its friends and supporters. That was the Bolivian way. Traditional parties in Bolivia have become irrelevant, in part because they have no jobs to offer anymore, after the State was downsized, and payrolls cut.
It is not like a new Yacimientos will be de-politicized. Bolivian history and Chavista example, it will become a place to put friends in positions where they will be able to steal. And like other times, probably not the most capable technical types will run it. Chavez, in a much richer country, did that with PDVSA.
Is it even worth it to re-start YPFB??
The country would better off with a staffed and professionally led enforcement agency for energy sector, and a revenue collection agency that was efficent.
But such an important regulatory and statutory reform, can not be made untill the Judiciary is reformed. That gives security to the government that its rules will be enforced, and to the companies to show that however way the act, they will have access to fair and efficient justice.
So what did Evo do upon getting power??
He appointed a lady who isn't even a lawyer to become minister of justice.
but that is the point, everything Evo is doing is the same old crap -and it looks like he is possibly making it much worse.
How serious will he be in setting up a YPFB which will be autonomous from the stupidity of ANY government in power. Whose promotions will be by merit?
NONE..
Despite his power and credibility how serious is he to offer safety to investors.
HE ISN'T
The most important
In answer to your bizarre screed: since when does bolivia have to sacrifice its future to a bunch of multinationals who have only one rule of thumb as their guide, how best they can maximize their greed. the contracts, which are dubious to begin with, were the result of a failed privatization scheme. every country in the world has the right to create new laws to correct mistakes in old laws. thats one of the great things about democracy.
I should also say that Bolivia should be free to do what it wants with future contracts. Unless existing contracts were truly ill-gotten, Bolivia should honor them.
If Bolivia signed a truly unreasonable deal, perhaps as a result of circumstances changing over time, I could see a moral rationale for both sides accepting more equal terms, especially if the contracts are for extremely long periods of time, which they seem to be. But Morales has done a poor job of stating his case and is being heavy handed about the whole thing.
For example, he seems to be setting the price Brazil must pay for gas according the amount of money his treasury needs.
Guillermo, I’m not sure why the frustration with Paul. These companies did enter what they believed to be legal contracts intending to comply with their obligations and expecting the other party would do the same. After investing in exploration and infrastructure the contracts were unilaterally changed. Now it’s being done again. Bolivia is a much higher risk now than 10 years ago primarily because its word is less valuable. None of these companies are currently investing in Bolivia; they are doing what’s necessary to minimize their losses. Mr. Morales believes that his negotiating stance will force them to accept “the inevitable”. He feels he can best define what is a fair profit and negotiate long term contacts to that end. Why should these companies believe that Bolivia / Evo will now start to keep its word and live up to the renegotiated contracts? I’m not trying to Bolivia-bash, but Bolivia’s / Evo’s, credibility is not strong outside of Cuba and VZ at this point.
Now, off topic a bit… Bolivia is the only country I know that repeatedly refers to 54% as a "landslide" victory. Actually, it's a weak majority, notable because no one has ever pulled it off here before, but a far cry from this overwhelming vast, vast majority being touted. News flash... it's only a couple percent more than President Bush had.
Oh by the way Guillermo, your statements about CODELCO are at best partly right.
It operates the largest mines in the country, but it does not have a monopoly - which YPFB wants to get. It does operate joint ventures with foreign companies, something did even before Allende.
After nationalization, foreign investment was allowed, and laws were passed to protect investment.
Since then, there has been more than 20 billion dollars in direct foreign investment. Production has gone way up, and this has all been helped by rising prices for copper.
I agree that the company has been fairly well-run. But, it does have problems. Some corruption controveries have come up, and some economists are saying it should be sold.
And it is not that efficient either:
http://www.latinbusinesschronicle.com/reports/reports/codelco.htm
Between 2001 and 2004 Codelco's production expanded by 8.8 percent while costs grew by 53.4 percent. The equivalent figures for private copper companies in that period were 16.8 percent and 27.5 percent, according to Chilean think-tank Libertad y Desarollo.
Bolivia's land redistribution plan hits snag: landowners
bolnica, here's whats wrong with what you say about codelco: first, the think tank you cite, libertad y desarollo, is a tool of the chilean right-wing, its a think tank started by the pinochetistas after they were kicked out of power, whose main reason to exist is to throw pot shots a the center-left governments that have ruled chile since 1990. but their profound problem is, the post-pinochet era in chile has been perhaps the best period this country has ever seen. in that context, i view with great suspicion anything this "think-tank" says. here's what codelco has to say on its website about production costs: "The copper production cost of Codelco is one of the lowest in the world, at a level of 31.7 cents per pound (cash cost, 2004)." You can see that here: http://www.codelco.com/english/areas_negocio/finanzas/finanzas_datos.asp
the other thing want to add to that is chileans are now clamoring to increase the ridiculously low royalty on the private companies digging out their minerals because they now realize these companies actvities in their country amount to a net loss -- they contribute very little in the way of taxes, the jobs they do provide are low wage and generally short-term while at the same time these mining projects are laving behind a toxic legacy spanning centuries that has already boosted the cancer rates in northern chile many-times above the norm. at some point, societies begin to ask, where the heck are we going with such a development model?
as for norman and paul. v., you are both twisting facts and only reading what you want to hear in order to somehow fit your ill-thought views. more to the point, paul v., i don't know you from adam, but over time have often read your manipulative questioning and frequent pot shots on this blog. gotta say, paul, you come across like a constipated, right-wing idiot from the zona sur pining for bolivia's corrupt, failed past. the key to personal growth guys is learning how to learn. you folks have a great opportunity to learn from jim, who is in fact a graduate from harvard universtiy -- which we all know is one of the best, if not the best, university on the planet.
here's hoping you reflect some more on your opinions, and open your minds up to new ways of seeing bolivia and the world.
Guillermo, in early 2006 British Gas suspended investment in Bolivia. In March Petrobras suspended plans to invest up to $5bn in the Bolivia’s gas sector. In April Repsol's announced a reduction in its reserves of roughly 25 percent, or 1.25 billion boe. Repsol cited concerns over nationalization of the country's oil and gas fields and higher tax rates, which made extraction less desirable. (I know, Repsol's a corrupt bad guy company.) May 3rd Petrobras’ President said he was suspending new investments in Bolivia and blocking funds to expand a gas pipeline between the two countries. All analysis I’ve seen so far says that, while companies that are already invested in Bolivia may not immediately reduce their operations, future investment is on hold indefinitely. Which of these facts have I twisted?
BTW, the personal attack on Paul weakens your position. When someone gets personal, it’s usually a sign that they have run out of convincing arguments. I’m glad Jim has a nice degree from a respected university, but the “He’s a smart guy” argument never works as there are always plenty of smart guys on both sides.
Oscar Oliviera’s story of resistance elicited a special response at the Asia Social Forum. Oscar representing Coordinator for the Defense of Water and Life went on to recall how people organised to oppose the handing over of Cochabamba’s water and sanitation system to Aguas del Tunari, - a consortium of private companies, including the American giant Bechtel – by Bolivian govt under pressures from the WB. He said that the cancellation of the contract with Aguas del Tunari was a significant moment but not the end of the story. People decided to set up an alternative enterprise, which is neither private nor state-controlled. It consists of a board of seven directors, three of whom are chosen through secret ballot by the people of Cochabamba. Of the rest, one represents workers’ unions, two are from the municipality and one represents professional organisations. The new enterprise, functioning over past two years, has successfully supplied piped water to over half the population of Cochabamba. “We don’t want to privatise, but we don’t want the state either. Private enterprises are for rich people and state enterprises are basically private enterprises of a political party. We want an enterprise based on the four pillars of transparency of management, efficiency, participation of people and social justice.”
www.narmada.org/sandrp/jun2003.doc
thanks for your comment, norman. but what point are you trying to make? so what if future investment is on hold? you do sound like a janitor at transredes.
its not that i have run out of arguments with you guys, its that this is becoming a complete waste of time.
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Points to be Made Concerning the Desaguadero River Accident:
Transredes, having only been created in May 1997, bought the dilapidated pipepine from the Bolivian government, just two and a half years before the accident was created by a flash flood.
Bolivian pension funds retained significant (50% ?) ownership in Transredes.
While Transredes was aware that the pipeline was in needed of urgent repair due to a December 1999 audit of the pipeline, at least they had taken the time to do an audit and were aware of problems.
Even if Enron/Shell believed that transporting oil throught the Sica Sica-Arica was a disaster waiting to happen, was shutting down the pipeline a legal option? I am not clear on this.
Guillermo, regardless of what you think, I am only seeking an honest representation of motives and facts, not one-sided political slogans. Are the people of the Western world mostly poor and destitute? Private enterprise can't be all bad.
PIPELINE BURSTS IN BOLIVIAN HIGHLANDS, SPEWS UNCHECKED FOR THIRTY HOURS
BOLIVIA: Transredes has admitted...
Enron's Pipe Scheme
Enron's Transredes has since demonstrated serious environmental negligence. In January 2000, their "Sica Sica Arica" oil pipeline burst, depositing nearly 30,000 barrels of oil along 160 miles of the Desaguadero River and contaminating as well the surrounding watershed, farmland, Lake Uru Uru and Lake Poopo. The livelihoods of many communities, including the 5,000-year old native tribe, Uru Morato, were destroyed.
Environment ministry officials called the company negligent for allowing the petroleum to flow out of the pipeline for more than 23 hours before shutting off the valves on either side of the hole. They said the company failed to clean up the mess until 8 days later. Further, Bolivia's Environment Minister Hernan Cabrera says that Transredes was warned by his offices well in advance of the spill that the pipeline was old and needed to be replaced. "They had ample time and warning to prevent this from happening and they did nothing."
Cabrera says Enron has agreed in principle to pay $5.9 million in compensation for damage to the communities, public infrastructure and ecosystems, but it is refusing to pay a $1.9 million government fine. Steven Hopper, general manager of Transredes, maintains that the company's response to the disaster was "a model for other companies in Bolivia."
The Expansion of Bolivia's Gas Pipeline Network
Concern over the environmental impacts of the Transredes project is aggravated by the company's poor environmental track record. In 2000, the spillage of 29,000 barrels of oil into the Desaguadero River from the Sica Sica-Arica pipeline resulted in major environmental damages. The spill caused $ 2.2 million of economic damage and affected 18 municipalities.
Transredes-CARE Partnership, Bolivia
Leaks & Spills: 1992-2002
a Bolivian pipeline, operated by the Shell/Enron-owned Transredes Corp., leaks oil and gasoline into the Desaguadero River after a flash flood. The spill continues for more than 24 hours, and is later estimated to be 10,000 bbls, reaching two downstream lakes, Uru Uru and Poopo, used by hundreds of Indian farmers and also are breeding and feeding grounds for flamingos and other wildlife. Bolivia’s acting Environment Minister Franz Ondarza criticized the company for its delay in reporting the spill, while others criticized the continued pumping on the line 20 hours into the incident. It was later revealed that a December 1999 audit of the pipeline had recommended urgent repair, finding some 40 sections that needed replacement. A cleanup of the spill was begun in March 2000. By July, Transredes had signed some 43 compensation agreements with 127 communities affected by the spill, as the Bolivian government began an audit of the incident.
US, French: Bala Just Not Worth a Dam
Hydrologist Jean-Gabriel Wasson of the French Institute for Scientific Investigation for Cooperation Development (ORSTROM) also spoke at the event, predicting that 90 percent of the proposed reservoir’s water would be stagnant and therefore breeding ground for disease-carrying insects.
"for decades the (reservoir’s) water quality will be very bad." Wasson said "And that water is released downstream."
The dam would also interfere with fishes reproductive cycles and could lead to extinction of some species, Wasson said. Because the area hillsides are steep and rocky, the reservoir’s banks would be sterile bands. Wasson said that building smaller dams higher up rivers would affect less area.
"There are alternative solutions with much lower ecological costs." He said.
interesting links, all. especially that blast from the past from the bolivian times and mike ceaser. but whats the point, paul? if you do not express your views clearly at the same time you post links and clips one can only think you are out in loonyland.
s bolnica, here's whats wrong with what you say about codelco: first, the think tank you cite, libertad y desarollo, is a tool of the chilean right-wing, its a think tank started by the pinochetistas after they were kicked out of power, whose main reason to exist is to throw pot shots a the center-left governments that have ruled chile since 1990. but their profound problem is, the post-pinochet era in chile has been perhaps the best period this country has ever seen. in that context, i view with great suspicion anything this "think-tank" says. here's what codelco has to say on its website about production costs: "The copper production cost of Codelco is one of the lowest in the world, at a level of 31.7 cents per pound (cash cost, 2004)." You can see that here: http://www.codelco.com/english/areas_negocio/finanzas/finanzas_datos.asps
Dude, First of all that quote is from a magazine article, in which two out of three economists quoted in the article had conclusions supporting privatization of CODELCO saying it was inneficient, the third suggested that CODELCO should open up to foreign capital. Second I could GAF if L & D is a "tool of the right wing", they actually have serious economists on staff, and lest you forget some of their recommendations are taken quite seriously by Concertacion governments and policymakers. Some of their work on judicial reforms is very sophisticated and interesting.
And lay off Paul V. He is the last person here to come just to pick fights.
RIGHT, IF A WORLD BANK ECONOMIST AND A FINANCE MINSITER SAID IT, AND IN THE LATIN BUSINESS CHRONICLE, IT MUST BE THE GOSPEL. AND THE ILD, THEY ARE SO SOPHISTICATED AND INTERESTING, RIGHT. RIGHT. AND PINOCHET WAS SO INNOVATIVE, TOO!
WHATEVER. YOU, PAUL, AND NORM THE JANITOR, ARE PRETTY MUCH IN LA LA LAND.
Guillermo, despite the silliness you initially wrote, you actually seemed a little reasonable.
But, the more your crap gets exposed with actual facts, the worse you become.
Learn some economic, political, and business history before you write.
And some common sense -- I am guessing you probably work in the private sector, learn something.
You won't listen to what a professional economist with a PhD says b/cause he worked for the World Bank.....
but then again, anything Jim Schultz says regarding Bolivia's economy is gospel for you. The guy has repeatedly shown the economic reasoning of a luddite with 0 evidence - at best spewed out with a clever spin. In the end he is no more than a hard left PR flack, and an organizer - the types you find running campaigns on both side of the abortion issue here in the US.
bolnica, you are a hypocritical little twit. but at least you are showing your true colors again.
first of all, i believe shultz has a masters in public policy from harvard, if i am not mistaken. that does not make his word gospel, but it lends more credibility to his opinions than yours i think we all can agree. (if you have more credibility in the topics of discussion, do tell).
in any case, just because a couple of conservative economists say "privatize codelco" obviously does not make it right. (or is that not obvious to you? if not, you need to join norm in bathroom detail)
if you had any real familiarity with chile, other than your brief forays into google, or rightwingnut.com, you would know that most chileans, including many economists, such as the current chilean finance minister, andres velasco, who, by conincidence, was formerly a distinguished professor of economics at harvard the past 6-7 years, do not want to touch codelco. its a successful corporation whose value is more than three times what it was just five years ago due to the rising price in copper, which this week reached an all-time high.
but, people with the third-rate education of an internet nerd such as you don't get. who cares?
Guillermo,
On occasion you make a point that might have some value, but then you cover it with insults. Why do you so resent people that research, as you obviously do, but then come to a different conclusion? Make your point, back it up with facts, and let the forum decide who is the twit; or the janitor (a job I actually did hold 30 years ago... where were you then?)
We'll soon see again who is better suited to run an industry; a profit motivated corporation or an idealistically motivated socialist government (or a mix of the two). If Mr. Morales thinks that it's one of the last two, hopefully he'll change his track record and place some people with experience in leadership positions vice political cronies.
Guillermo quit playing dumb ideologue.
All I will say to you, is that I have an advanced degree, and that my education and work experience alone makes me qualified to say WTF I want to say in the areas of international development, Corporate structures and regulation, international transactions, Contracts, Latin American (and Bolivian) history, and international relations.
Oh, and by the way, unlike most of the idiot lefties I see chattering in these boards, I actually grew up in more than one Latin American country, including several military dictatorships and a Marxist regime, and had and continue to have sources of information you could only dream of.
That alone qualifies me to say WTF I want to say, and impels you to STFU unless you have superior knowledge somehow
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