Saturday, September 09, 2006

The Opposition Finally Finds Some Traction

Yesterday’s successful four-department general strike, by political opponents of the MAS government, makes it official that the opposition has finally found some political traction eight months into the Morales presidency. Morales and MAS deserve a good deal of the credit for helping them achieve it.

During his first three months in office, Morales could hardly have had a sweeter honeymoon, both in Bolivia and abroad. On his ascendancy to the presidency Evo went from being a roughly cut coca union leader to an international rock star. He embodied hope at home, and abroad he was wrapped in the imagery of new indigenous power. Even old foes offered kind words and promises of assistance. His popularity in Bolivia hovered at 80%. His detractors, both to his right and to his left, found little interest in their criticisms.

Soon afterwards the imagery of a new government gave way to the realities of governing and political choices. In came the Cuban doctors and Venezuelan oil advisors. Out went the soldiers to the oil fields for a photo-op of aggressiveness aimed at domestic politics, but that also played far more radically in the foreign press than the government might have strategically intended. Onward came elections for the Constituent Assembly to rewrite the nation’s constitution.

MAS opponents, led by Tuto Quiroga and PODEMOS, imagined they could find political traction in weeks of advertising featuring photos of Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez and dire warnings that, essentially, any day Evo would start parading up and down the Prado in La Paz sporting a red beret and automatic rifle. The success of that political strategy by PODEMOS was measured in its trouncing at the Constituent Assembly polls in July, even worse than the drubbing MAS handed them in December.

Then Morales handed his domestic political opponents two excellent pieces of political red meat that on the one hand had real substance, and on the other played directly to the two political weaknesses that were always certain to be the new government’s Achilles heel. The first was that he would not be able to assemble a competent administration and the second was that Morales harbors an authoritarian streak.

In January he had put in charge of the state-owned oil corporation a genial friend, Jorge Alvarado, who had already well-established himself as a mediocre administrator when he took over Cochabamba’s public water company after the water revolt in 2000. Those qualities of administrative mediocrity caught up with the new government in August in the explosion of a scandal involving a government contract with a Brazilian firm. The opposition pounced, and Morales helped them with a week of rhetoric castigating his critics instead of dealing with the problem. Alvarado finally stepped down.

Morales’ opponents found their first real bite.

Then MAS played to that other perceived danger embodied in Evo, the authoritarian streak, by engineering a vote in the Constituent Assembly to make the voting along the path toward a new constitution subject to a simple majority vote (one MAS could dominate), while final approval would remain, as required by law, subject t a 2/3 vote that gave MAS opponents an effective veto power at the end.

Both sides have reasonable arguments – the need to not have political obstruction at every turn versus the demand for keeping the majority in check. Nevertheless, the opposition seized on the issue hard and that resistance culminated in the general strikes yesterday in Santa Cruz, Beni, Pando and Tarija.

So what does all this mean?

First, it is important to see the resistance around the majority vote issue in the Assembly as a two-headed beast. On the one hand it is certainly a legitimate issue and I do not question the sincerity with which many in the opposition have taken to battle against it. On the other hand, given that PODEMOS and its allies continue to have a clear, unchallenged veto over the final product at the end, the fuss also has some hidden agendas as well.

If I were PODEMOS I would certainly not relish the prospect of having to use my minority vote in the Assembly to stop something that may well be a political freight train traveling with huge momentum at the end. Standing in front of such a force is not good politics. Ask Goni. Or, if alternatively a MAS-backed constitution proposal is put before the electorate for approval, PODEMOS is really unlikely to win there either. Aside from the “process” debate involved, opponents of MAS are simply more powerful if they can block proposals piece by piece and slow the process to a crawl. I also would not dismiss the charges that foreign oil firms and other outside interests have their hand in the slowing strategy as well.

MAS, for its part, looks like it will respond to yesterday’s strike the way it tried to respond at first to the opposition’s attack on the problems with its gas administration – attack the opposition. As several astute readers of this Blog have noted in recent weeks, this ironically has Evo taking a page from the political playbook of George W. Bush. That strategy, while tempting, is not likely to play any better in the Andes than it has in the USA.

All this is not great timing for Morales. He is headed later this month to New York, his first trip ever to the US, where he will address the UN General Assembly, hob nob with other heads of state and have an opportunity for another round of international media attention. The strikes assure that he will go north stripped of some of the rock star glow he hoped to have in full supply. I am sure his domestic opponents know that as well.

Morales and MAS are at their best when they focus both their rhetoric and their governing on the concrete tasks of lifting a poor nation out of poverty – something Evo’s predecessors never seemed to care much about and certainly did a miserable job of delivering. Morales and MAS are not at their best when they shift into hard-core political mode and offer the appearance that consolidating political power is really their deepest desire.

In politics the high ground is better, and rightly or wrongly, Morales and MAS are at risk of losing it.

64 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh my goodness, JIM - how can you not see the TRUTH. Well, I guess it's obvious - you're probably the type of person that prefers to use socks. Puhleeze. Limp-ankled commie. But still. Can you stop it with the continual unabashed french-kissing of the United Nations that you have a reputation for, and just admit that the one and only answer to Bolivia's political and social ills is rise of Tuto/PODEMOS government?

I am Bolivian. Hear me cry, world. And I will continue to post here as long as the TRUTH(tm) remains hidden.

Seriously speaking though, nice post and nice blog. There's nothing better than initiative and expressing one's opinion even though it seems like some people on this blog would prefer that not take place.

Come on certain individuals, try to gain a little respect. For example, I often disagree with "Centellas" (sp?) opinion, but his ability to present his position in a fact-based professional manner that does not resort to childish name calling and false assumptions of nationality, location, class, etc. should be emulated more often. For as much as I often disagree, I do *listen* and *think* to the argument presented, and begin to factor it into my opinions on matters.

Let's keep it civil. My ironic entry was just a play on how silly things have gotten.

That said, I believe both sides (of the current political problems)have and continue to make mistakes, and that it is the responsibility of Evo & Co. to honor their position of power by taking the high ground and stopping to act like the opposition in the street that they previously were.

MAS, please: Stop the Spin, Stop re-interpreting the law, and Stop the doubletalk. (Did anyone else notice the irony of various gov't ministers speaking Thursday night about the need for the paro-supporters to respect people's ability to move freely on the street, while Copacabana's trenches continues to increase and not one word was mentioned regarding a major point of entry being completely barricaded?)

2:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, as long as we're going to bring back Tuto, let's go nuts and bring back a new Goni government. I mean, what difference does public opinion make anyway?

4:36 PM  
Blogger BOLIVIA LIBRE said...

Superb entry, excellent political analysis Jim, I am amassed, what did you had for breakfast today? I actually had to read it 3 times to believe it. Your very sincere paragraph, “Morales handed his domestic political opponents two excellent pieces of political red meat that on the one hand had real substance, and on the other played directly to the two political weaknesses that were always certain to be the new government’s Achilles heel. The first was that he would not be able to assemble a competent administration and the second was that Morales harbors an authoritarian streak.” Might close our views that some of the old politicians, no matter that their predecessors or masters or however you want to called them failed in the past, are a necessity to the Country. That the well educated, no so radical, globalization oriented businessmen or professionals are needed to “assemble a competent administration”. After all that happen in Bolivia in the past 3 years, if these politicians from the old parties survived, is because people still thing they represent them and that have good possibilities to help; you can not expect to have a new breed of politicians from one day to another, that doesn’t even happened inside MAS. The problem of the authoritarian streak is other thing, than can only be deal inside the MAS Regime and as I wrote it in the pass, authoritarism is a part of Bolivian syndicalism.

You analysis, “If I were PODEMOS I would certainly not relish the prospect of having to use my minority vote in the Assembly to stop something that may well be a political freight train traveling with huge momentum at the end. Standing in front of such a force is not good politics.” Is also right on, but you still give to much power to this party, as you wrote in a previous blog, the Constitutional Assembly has 255 seats, and only 170 votes are needed to get the 2/3. MAS has 137 and PODEMOS 60. So, without taking in account the PODEMOS representatives, MAS has 58 delegates to trance with and get things done, they only need to convince 33 out of the 58 and have already 10 of them in the sack. So PODEMOS alone cannot prevent a Constituent text coming from a consensus between MAS and other representatives.

I believe your Achilles heel is seeing anything that is not MAS as the evil that want’s to do wrong to Bolivia and that do not believe a change is needed, as you clearly wrote “opponents of MAS are simply more powerful if they can block proposals piece by piece and slow the process to a crawl.” As in crawl meaning never to advance. I ask you, what is wrong with changing our Constitution slowly, with a lot of care and discussion. After all, our lives, our children’s lives and probably more generations are going to be rule by it. The only reason I see anybody want’s our new constitution to be changed fast, is because it thinks that it has better possibilities to be reelected under the new rules of the land if those elections happen in the short time. That is a political move that has nothing to do with doing the better thing for the people of Bolivia.

5:21 PM  
Anonymous GH said...

Nice analysis, Jim. Though, I think Evo can beat this opposition back, their support is relatively small in my view. When in Santa Cruz, recently, I found gas industry people saying they actually support Evo now. Its not hopeless in these provinces. Evo needs to find a way to re-capture the moral ground and reach an agreement with the opposition on process in the Constituente. Ultimately, its to his advantage if Podemos agrees with the process because they later can't blame the govt. if they don't like the final constitution. And in my opinion, the final vote on the constitution should go to a national referendum after Podemos does not, predictably, vote for it. Over all, in my opinion, the Evo govt. has the potential to be a good govt. and other than the two issues you mention in your post, and a few other things, its been on a good path toward making the changes this country has long needed.

5:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think Evo and Jim both miss an important point. The fight in Santa Cruz isn't between the "ruling elite" and the underdogs; it isn't between the whites and the indigenous people or even between Cambas and local Kollas: it is a regional issue. People who live here-- regardless of where they were born or how much white blood they have-- want to work, and they want to stop sending the money they make to La Paz, where they believe it is squandered. They want the money to stay here to improve roads and schools and to produce more jobs.

Most of the "gente humilde", the indigenous Cambas and even the Kollas who live here supported the paro, and they don't support Evo anymore. I think those that voted for him did it just to see what he would do and they've already lost patience.

If Evo begins to lose control, I don't see him stepping down like all the other recent presidents have done. He sees himself as the decendent of the Incans with a mission to right the historical wrong. I am afraid, if the movement toward autonomy backs him into a corner he will do something drastic. Like dictators before him, he might decapitate the opposition to consolidate power. I hope that's not the advise he's getting on his visits with Fidel. I hope he's not staying so calm in public because behind the scenes he's getting a group ready to make some people "disappear." I hope it doesn't come to that.

6:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

An Aymara an Incan descendant oh my! scent of death squads, dictatorial powers, this guy started out good but whatever he was smoking ruined his last paragraph.

7:29 PM  
Anonymous cattleman in SC said...

I think the first anonymous person had it right. I have heard it reported that Evo has 2000+ supporters armed with weapons fron Chavez. I don't think Chavez can afford to let his puppet Evo fall. I think Evo is losing support fast and may well feel he has to resort to drastic measures. Also I know from personal experience the opposition to MAS in the Santa Cruz department is widespread. This is not just a opposition of the oligarchs. The media luna has a much different view of the future than MAS. I just hope the opposition has the huevos to stand up to him if things get really rough.

11:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A quick search of "decendents of the Incas" shows that those decendents speak Quechua. Evo may be Aymara, but he likes to say he represents both of the highland indigenous groups, so I think it is safe to say he wants to win back what the conquistadores took. It is just too bad he doesn't seem to care much for the other Bolivian native peoples, like the Chiquitano, Guarani, and half a dozen other Camba Indigenous peoples who have not historically been good friends with the highland indians.

Those Camba indians don't exactly agree with Evo when he says the Quechua/Aymara people have a right to the land down here and the gas it holds. You might be able to make the argument that the land up in the mountains and the silver and the tin should be theirs, but any move by Evo to take away what belongs to Santa Cruz feels like a foreign invasion, and not just to the "ruling elite."

12:13 PM  
Anonymous Reality in SC said...

"Cattleman in SC", you are quite bizarre with your Chavez crap. Offer up some evidence, hard facts. The more you people spread such lies the less support you will have for your greedy interests.

3:45 PM  
Blogger BOLIVIA LIBRE said...

Reality in SC, get “real”. You want prove of Evo´s paramilitary support, here we go:

“El Presidente propone conformar un Estado Mayor del Pueblo para que defina políticas estatales
Redacción Bolpress
El Presidente Evo Morales propuso la creación de un “Estado Mayor” del pueblo, instancia máxima que tomaría “decisiones rápidas” sobre políticas de gobierno. Formarían parte del Estado Mayor Popular los dirigentes principales de organizaciones nacionales, organizaciones importantes de una región, confederaciones aglutinadas a la Central Obrera Boliviana (COB), partidos de izquierda, jefes de bancada departamental y ministros del área económica, política y social.”

“Estado Mayor del Pueblo, Public Manifest”.
http://www.nadir.org/nadir/initiativ/agp/free/imf/bolivia/txt/2003/0122manifiesto.htm

“Estado Mayor del Pueblo, creation”
http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/reconquista-popular/2003w06/msg00104.htm

“28, June, 2006; Miners stop the taking of the COB by the Estado Mayor del Pueblo”.
http://www.lahaine.org/index.php?blog=3&p=15633

“31, august, 2006, Peasants march to pressure the Constituents”
http://www.lostiempos.com/noticias/31-08-06/31_08_06_nac7.php

“Creation of the Indigenous Talibans, By Roberto de la Cruz, a MAS henchmen”
http://maquev.blogspot.com/2006/07/talibanes-indgenas.html

The creation by MAS representative, Osvaldo “Chato” Peredo of the obscure “Juventud Guevarista”.
http://www.hoybolivia.com/news.php?seccion=78&d3=39355
http://www.lostiempos.com/noticias/03-08-06/03_08_06_eco4.php

Other obscure information given by our government in the past days is that Bolivia is “buying” Iranian farm tractors to be assembled in Venezuela; nobody knows how good these tractors are, but everybody knows that Iran is one of the major arms providers for terrorism and “other friends”.

8:44 PM  
Anonymous cattleman in SC said...

To Bolivia Libre: Thanks. P.S. I am sure those Iranian tractors are really good. Not! To Reality in SC: My greedy interests are to build a solid, productive business in Bolivia. My employees are paid above the going rate and are well taken care of. You sound like you are few beers short of a six pack.

10:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jim, great analogy about Evo taking a page from Bush's playbook.

That conveniently obscures the fact that you are taking a surprisingly strong page from the Hugo Chavez playbook. You say that the groundswell of opposition is mainly to Evo's credit - it sounds just like Hugo when he said the fact that he hadn't gotten around to shooting his opposition was proof that he was a great democrat who allowed opposition. In reality, Morales hasn't shot his opposition dead yet so now he wants to take credit for their protesting. Doesn't work that way, Jim. Oppositions emerge in Bolivia because Morales is systematically stripping Bolivians of their freedoms. They want their country back. They don't want One-Man-One-Vote-Once, like your tinpot pals in other parts of the post-colonial world, they want freedom. Morales is taking it away from them. That's not to his credit. That's the proof positive he's a n nothing more than brutal leftist thug intent on dictatorship. Don't think he won't eventually come for you, Jim, dictators in the end get everyone. Check out the history of Stalin for some perspective on this, Jim.

2:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the commenter above,

Gee, I guess it must really bum you out that both Chavez and Morales keep winning big majorities in their elections and enjoy broad popular support.

What is that called? Let me think. Right, democracy. Do you have some problem with that?

Would you rather Bolivia be governed again by one of those political parties that can't crack 25% of the vote?

Yeah, that worked real well here.

9:59 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Evo might be what the high landers need, but he has nothing to offer the people in Santa Cruz.
If Santa Cruz can't run the government it has no need for La Paz. What do the high landers have to offer? People down here can live without alpaca sweaters and coca. They can definitely live with out the instability and self distruction.
Evo's Bolivia is like a parasite. It can't produce itself so it wants to move in and take what others have.
The only reason Santa Cruz is still part of Bolivia is because for centuries-- when the highlands still had something to offer, and the roads were so poor the highlanders stayed away-- Santa Cruz was a sleepy farm town. Cambas at heart are country folk. They are a peaceful, passive people.
They would rather look the other way when a neighbor's home is burned by people who want to live illegally on his land. They don't want to send their sons to war so if it isn't your land, yet, take the easy way out. It is fear and lack of agression that is keeping them in the union and what scares me is I think Evo knows that too.

11:00 AM  
Anonymous Boliviana 100% said...

People by now should stop romanticising evo. I don't know where GH is from, but he sounds like my European friends. Evo isn't the nice inoffensive guy wearing a striped sweater we say at the beginning of this year. We don’t even know his true goals, apart from his desire for a “communitarian state”.
Evo seems to be an ambitious and stubborn man, who holds a political dream that doesn't fit in the entirety of this country. He doesn't want to acknowledge our diversity, multiculturality, and the fact that there is no single dominant cultural majority in this country.
His Development Program itself can't be accommodated throughout Bolivia. Indigenous groups in the Chiquitania, for instance, could never make communitarianism work; most work separately/individually or in family groups on their projects, and receive remuneration separately. Although they are “collective” projects, they do not necessarily do things collectively, when you buy handicrafts from the chiquitania, many will say the name of the person that made it, and who you are actually paying to. Friends at El Alto want services to be public but businesses to be private. How is he ever going to install socialist enterprises??? Some communities in Bolivia are “communist” or “communitarian” in their way of living, especially in the Andes and tiny indigenous communities in the lowlands, however it isn’t something that can be mimicked throughout the whole country. If he wants to be a good ruler, he has to start ruling thinking about all Bolivians, if he wants his project to work, he would have been better out in a country with autonomous provinces where he could govern one, where his model were to be ideal. Remarks from Patzi, saying that private enterprises will cease to exist eventually not only infuriated the “big shot” businessmen, or the “oligarchs” of Santa Cruz, it infuriated micro, small and medium size enterprises, whose owners work three times as hard as the “oligarchs”.
At the presentation of the PND (development program), the harshest criticisms and insults towards Villegas and the other government representatives did not come from the so called “oligarchs” that were sitting right in the front, but from the micro and small enterprises representatives… The loudest criticisms came after one of the vice ministers said that in order to get loans from the development bank they had to work collectively, that they had to make communities... My outcry came when Villegas explained communitarian democracy, meaning, that things had to be resolved in community and then their representatives take the pledges to the central government… He did not even want to explain what the government meant by community, or the size of it. … How the hell will minorities ever be heard in such a system, based on absolute majorities… Voices of dissent would never reached the “big” government, as they would be quieten down in “community”.
EVO and his crew have to set their feet on reality. Being a lefty is not wrong, I am kind of one, but different kinds of lefts exist, not all types of socialism end in communism or “communitarianism”… It is one thing to have free public services and another thing for the state to own your life.

I think Evo has failed to see the true whole picture... Change has to come to all, and in order for it to be permanent it has be accepted by the greater majority, not a simple political majority of 50% but by over 80% of the population., and I don’t mean this as the problematic of the CA, but the CA is setting the picture, how can you expect great revolutionary change if 46% of your population doesn’t agree with that change?, 1.435.178 of the 3.102.417 voters did not agree in the general elections, and 1.810.946 of 3.133.602 voters did not agree with them writing the constitution. These minorities do not represent a great portion of the population; if he continues missing the picture as a whole, in due course this minority could become a majority.

11:23 AM  
Anonymous Boliviana100% said...

Sorry, got a mistake to correct
*these minorities represent a great portion of the population... instead of "These minorities do not represent a great portion of the population"

11:30 AM  
Anonymous Boliviana100% said...

To the anonymous writer above my previous message:
WE CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT "Highlanders"... They represent one of our biggest market, consumers... etc. And they are our access to the Pacific Ocean, how the hell are we going to export towards the west without access to their roads, like it or not they need us as much as we need them! Comments like those stain the true spirit of the eastern region, and you know that. I agree... cruceños are too passive... they blabber a lot and do little. And the media is extremely biased; people on the other side of Bolivia are not seeing what is truly happening here, all they see is a bunch of political crap. The event you mention was horrid, yesterday the so called “colonos” set fired a legal house in order to take over land, and yes, the other “legal” neighbours sat there watching thinking they could not be next. The lands “reverted” by Evo in previous weeks were not owned by rich people, and they were conveniently “reverted” just in time for harvest. Lands around national parks such as Noel Kempff Mercado, Amboro, Choré are being deforested at a rapid pace by the movimiento sin tierra and colonos, government is not doing anything about it, these lands are not even apt for farming...

11:43 AM  
Blogger Norman said...

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke

Not to paint the left as "evil" and the right as “good”, but the theory can be extrapolated. At the present pace, I’d say Evo will get pretty much everything he’s playing for and then some. His opposition is doing little more than make noise. The left was willing to seriously undermine the sitting government and to cripple the economic engine of the country to gain their ends. I don’t think Evo’s opposition is willing to go to that extreme. The government during that time (at the very least, Mesa’s) was unwilling to see Bolivia torn apart and so the President(s) resigned. I don’t see Evo resigning under any circumstance.

12:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Norman,

A little Bolivian education for you hermano. If that great economic engine you speak of had been doing anything real for most of the country, Goni would still be President, not Evo. But I guess that would be outside your personal experience, no?

"It also helps not to be oblivious to reality."

Edmund Burke's wiser older sister.

12:24 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

Been here four years hermano... not an eternity, but enough to testify that the economic machine never had a chance. To start with, you have to have open roads for any semblance of economic prosperity. Evo's greatest advantage right now is that he doesn't have Evo and his ilk blockading, protesting, and generally gumming up the works.

12:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh Stormin' Norman,

I am sure the world looks very different when one lives here on a US military pension. How fortunate you have become an expert in your short time here.

The economy in this country has been a mess for 20 years, not 4, except for the boost from coca your fine country didn't care for.

Are you going to blame 20 years on Evo?

Take off your ideological blinders hermano, just for a second, and you might just experience the wonders of peripheral vision. Or are ideological blinders just standard US Army issue?

3:19 PM  
Blogger BOLIVIA LIBRE said...

To the “anos” assaulting at Norman, one of you said “The economy in this country has been a mess for 20 years, not 4, except for the boost from coca your fine country didn't care for.” I tell you something, if not for the entrance of Bolivian economy to Globalization, you and thousands of people in Bolivia will not have that cell phone you use to communicate every day, you will not be writing to this blog unless you would be in the top 10% of the rich people in the Country and have your own sorry connection at your home, because café internets like the one I am using right now would have not existed, at list not this cheap. Evo and the MAS regimen would be having a hard time to find here to get money because no gas would be flowing to Brazil, we would still be producing the same amount of petroleum and burn the excess of gas coming with it, something our hydrocarbon minister always preferred to do. Nevertheless, the economic machinery will still be moving in Santa Cruz, with the cambas force in agriculture, forestry and cement and the collas force with the informal commerce. The boost from coca, give me a break, maybe you and your “ano” family benefited from it, but that money only got in the pockets of a few elite narco members and narco dirigentes. Most of that money was sent out of Bolivia, and the one money that reminded was used to create fake commences to clean de money that make a lot of honest, real, small business, to go broke.
The other “ano hermano” said, “That great economic engine you speak of had been doing anything real for most of the country”. Where do you thing emigration to Santa Cruz moved from, China. The economic engine of Santa Cruz gave and still gives a lot of Bolivians a chance to prosper and to make a decent earning. The few that could not make it started too emigrated to Spain. Today, thanks to Evo and his MAS Regime, everybody want’s to emigrate abroad. How is that for a “peripheral vision” my hermanitoy.

4:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

jajajaja Bolivian economy a mess for the past 20 years? Do you remember the lefty UDP and the hyper hyper hyper inflation???? Do you remember the 50's when our mining industry plummetted...

Oh we were so prosperous before the eighties!!! We enjoyed such a wonderful standard of living, freedom of speech, our exports were so diverse, our population was literate, so many roads, such a great transportation system, great hospitals, great schools, mortality rates were so low, dictators never killed civilians,unemployment rates were so much lower...

GET YOURSELF BACK TO REALITY, WE HAVE NEVER BEEN PROSPEROUS, not even during Potosi´s Silver Age... You know what is even more ironic is that mines and miners were better off when patiño was there.... And even if this transnational companies are corrupt, YPFB was at least ten times worse...THEY WERE BOLIVIANS STEALING FROM BOLIVIANS and at outraging ways!
READ HISTORY!

4:45 PM  
Blogger Tambopaxi said...

.... I've never been to Bolvia, but of late, I've been reading Jim's blog and even more recently, that of Centellas (Ciao!) which have different takes on the situation there.

Different takes notwithstanding, it's clear that, in winning the last presidential election, Evo has not won the country. He's not alone in that situation, as witness Bush in the U.S., Chavez in Venezuala, etc.

That said, in the case of Bolivia there appears to a regional dichotomy which is somewhat analogous to the red state/blue state division we see in the States. In the case of Bolivia, though, it seems to be a much more clearly defined division, and much starker in terms of divisions/tensions and geographic focus.

Question I've got for posters here, is (and maybe this is premature question, hell, I don't know): Are the moves of Evo, MAS y cia moving the east toward secession? T

5:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Question I've got for posters here, is (and maybe this is premature question, hell, I don't know): Are the moves of Evo, MAS y cia moving the east toward secession?"

In my opinion, the road to secession has already been mapped out, and ANY wrong gamble by Evo's gov't will be used as justification for moving down that road.

6:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

this is why the 2/3 majority is important... without it the east won't be represented, a simple majority will only provoke Bolivia's future division...

6:33 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

Actually, among the various taxi drivers and miscellaneous friends in Santa Cruz, there's a lot more talk of secession (and the occasional mention of civil war) than I ever expected. Talk is a long way from action though and as I implied above, I haven't seen anything yet that makes me think it's much more than talk. BTW, B-L and anon, thanks for the assist.

7:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bolivia Libre shoots...he scores!

10:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

much of the family is in SC, coch and sucre....and they are hopeful for a less corrupt govt.....but I am told Evo has an angry heart....that worries me...r

12:20 AM  
Anonymous Boliviana100% said...

As a female camba, I can corroborate that most male cambas are all about the chatter and little action. However, the culture is also characterised for having several extremely pugnacious specimens among their population, who could actually tilt the political conflict into a violent quarrel.
WHAT EVER…. Some cambas are only pugnacious when it comes to jealousy. We do not have an army, most will rather fly to spain than stay here and fight… The most belligerent leader we have is the president of el comite civico, and his best and probably only weapon is his mouth, and to be honest it isn’t working that well. However, you can feel how tense people are, and there are legitimate wishes to secede… Violence is going to occur. People are going to defend their rights and property, but it will not be organized. I can bet on that. The union juvenil might even go to the paro planned on the 20 to sabotage the international fair and throw several rocks, punches, etc to the bloqueadores… yet that won’t lead to secession or the formation of a camba army, or to autonomy even, all it will do is give Evo even more press material to speak against Santa Cruz and the so called “oligarchs” and recuperate his descending approval rate. Cambas have made themselves the perfect scapegoats, and it’s sad because their proposal is actually sound, pragmatic and would benefit everyone…

However the 2/3 problem, will eventually get to the part of the 50% that doesn't live in the east. People have not woken up yet; I think they are the dormant volcano... Cruceños aren't, they do not have the capability to organize themselves, or don't have it yet... That is why the cabildo for autonomy was amazing, people went there because they believe in autonomy, however, only a tiny percentage of the hundreds of thousands of people there would actually do something, they expect others to do it, and cambas do not have the necessary leadership to organize something.

12:42 AM  
Blogger Norman said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

5:57 AM  
Blogger Norman said...

Good points. One thing worth pointing out for those reading from afar; if anyone tries to blockade the international fair, it will be a huge deal. That brings huge amounts of $$ not only into Santa Cruz, but into Bolivia in general. The threats to blockade aren't based on some protest, but an intent to punish Santa Cruz for expressing themselves in the same way MAS did for so long. Boliviana is right; that will get violent.

5:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I spoke with Bolivia's vice-president when he was in L.A. to provide moral support to Bolivia's representative (a petroleum engineering student) in the Miss Universe competition. Although she was one of the ten finalists, on the eve of the competition she suffered a nervous breakdown. On the basis of his prior friendship with her and his being in town, he visted her and his visit aided her confidence.

At the Miss Universe Coronation ball, I was in the secured VIP section with dignataries and NBC and Telemundomo celebrities. Whereas he was in the massive public area where the "barra nacional" was located instead of enjoying the amenities of the VIP section (comfort, gourmet food and open bar).

After I spotted him drinking water, I introduced myself. He politely allowed me to "advise" him to frame his request for continuation of favorable trade status for Bolivian textiles or garment manufacturers in a certain manner. But, I forewarned him to expect failure since Bush does not care about Bolivia's efforts to alleviate social injustice and economic disparity. Case in point, one word: Katrina.

Then, I also advised him to pay attention to their international media relations. And, particularly, I expressed the need for thoughtfulness as to the president's communications. (I think Evo should not go off of pre-determined speaking points for the same reasons Bush is forbidden to do so.)

Now, I would again advise Bolivia's government leaders to be aggressive in their public relations. But, now they should take a few pages from the Karl Rove playbook since they seek the domestic hegemony Rove obtained for Bush.

Since there will be violence by the Crucenos on the 20th (just as there was during the recent paro). However, now it will be to a greater extent. Therefore the government should record it. Then they should declare martial law and use media images and words to define the Union Civico Juvenil as racist and fascists acting as terrorists for the neo-insurgency: comite civico, transnationals and the ogliarchs.

I think there is a civil war coming so Evo might as well prepare for it by planning some "shock and awe" tactics patterned after the US and Israel's recent examples. Only he should avoid the US and Israeli mistakes. He should send enough troops to control the Oriente and immediately improve the lot of the average persons' lives. Concurrently he will need to capture and send the insurgency's leaders to secret prisons in Cuba (think CIA secret prisons in Eastern Europe). There, they could be kept in a manner modeled after how the Guantanamo detanees are imprisoned.

My point is this: do everything to the Cruceno fascists that Bush is doing to the Iraquis and Lebanese so that Bush can not criticize him or invade Bolivia.

Do it all in the name of a war against Cruceno terrorism and public corrupcion. Since, Bush has said wars against terrors are in essence forever, this war will last for many years and require MAS staying in power for that period.

In the alternative, Evo should try to be a uniter that takes into consideration the media luna's (Santa Cruz, Beni, Tarija etc.) fears of being steam rolled by constitutional laws passed by a simple majority in Sucre.

7:13 AM  
Anonymous Boliviana 100% said...

You are so off! If you want a united Bolivia then strive for one...
Bolivianos... COLLAS CAMBAS CHAPACOS ETC... IF WE WANT PROGRESS THE GOVERNMENT MUST WORK IN THE INTERESTS OF ALL!

By the way, the paro in Santa Cruz wasn't nearly as violent as the paro in La Paz on the 29th of August, which actually lasted only for half a day, and managed to have much more vandalism. And if you don’t know that is because the government issued much more press coverage on the Santa Cruz paro. Coming down the airport, the taxi driver in front of me was beaten severely with rocks, his windshields destroyed and his tires flattened...... why aren't those people in jail? Why was there no media coverage about that? Down the road, you could see many cars, rich and poor, with flattened tires, and/or destroyed windshields. It took people around two hours to go around achocalla and alternative and dangerous routes in order to get out of El Alto and into the City.

You might as well ask the alteña concejala Catherine Pinto who was beaten the hell out when she publicly stated that she didn’t particularly liked EVO... Three guys hitting a woman for expressing herself is even worse than terrorism.

IF YOU WANT TO HELP, GET YOURSELF BACK TO BOLIVIA AND PUT YOUR FEET ON REALLITY. SUPPORTING OUR MISS BOLIVIA AND SPEAKING TO OUR VICE-PRESIDENT IN MISS UNIVERSE IS NOTHING!!!

BY THE WAY, I’VE SPOKEN TO OUR VICE PRESIDENT TOO (LIKE THOUSANDS OF OTHERS), AND TO MINISTRO VILLEGAS, AND MINISTRO RIK AND HIS VICE MINISTER OF TRANSPORTE RABCZUK, VICE MINISTER BARBERY AND HIS COMMERCE CREW, SPOKEN TO SOLON!!!! DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE EVEN CONSIDERED ANY OF THE STUFF SAID TO THEM, NO!!! They are submerged in their own dogma and unwilling to actually take in any sort of suggestion. Yes they are approachable but they are not permeable. THEY ARE AS STUBBORN AS A MULE. THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM. And sitting with the public crowd is not a sign of humbleness, it can also be a great political tactic to portray such an image.

BY THE WAY IT’S BECAUSE OF COMMENTS LIKE YOURS THAT RACISM AND VIOLENCE ARE ESCALATING… IF YOU WANT DIPLOMACY SPEAK DIPLOMATICLY. IF YOU WANT PEACE, DO NOT INCITE WAR.

4:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can only comment on my personal experiences. I cannot comment on your perceptions of not being listened to. Maybe the "vice" did not listen to you, I do not deny what you claim in this instance. It could have happened if you speak like you write. However, I found him to be an attentive listener. His first response showed he listened and considered what I recommended he tell the Americans (he was negotiating with). He answered that my advise was what he had told them.

We had a dialogue about that and other matters. However, I had to return to the VIP section (I was negotiating a project with an NBC soap opera star, cultivating an industry relationship with a young talent, and discussing the possiblility of expanding the scope of the work a certain NGO does for Brazilian children with aids so that I can help them. If they also help Bolivian children. The vice remained with the Bolivians and the other people who payed $75 to be in the common area, I guess not because of being "humble" but because there were no Bolivians in the VIP section and they would not be welcomed with a special pass.

Aside from that, be real. Bolivia is likely headed for a civil war.

Therefore, Evo should plan accordingly. He should have a carrot in one hand and the appropriate action plans in his other hand. (Israeli and U.S. attacks against insurgents and terrorsists in Iraq, against the elected government of Palestine and Lebanon are models that provide lessons on how to do certain things and what mistakes to avoid).

If the goal is paz, orden y trabajo con justica social, then Evo's democratically elected government must protect liberty against the domestic terrorists in the insurgency controled areas of the Oriente. All he has to do to keep the U.S. from interfereing is declare it a war against terrorists and do all Bush has done. Isreal bombing the Palestinian Parliament and kidnapping, err. . . I mean taking prisoner the Palestinian elected leaders because they were members of the Hamas political party would be an interesting model to follow as to what to do with the Prefecto Costas and other Podemos leaders.

I love Bolivia. It is never boring. It just needs social justice and economic opportunity for ALL!

5:37 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

12:31 AM  
Blogger Norman said...

I removed my last entry because it was written in anger. Let me just say, as politely as possible, that anyone that calls for civil war and incites the government to violence really does not understand what they are talking about. A list of which Hollywood projects you've worked on does not lend you any more credibility. I understand that most people haven't been to war. They just see what the camera brings them. Therefore most people don't truly understand, with all of their senses, what exactly it is that you are trying to incite. Hollywood romanticizes war far too much. If Mr. Morales truly believes his country is headed for civil war, he should seek common ground. War is to be avoided, not at all costs, but it is to be avoided; civil war even more so.

I won't even touch who the domestic terrorists have been for the last several years.

8:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Although he removed his post, I respond to "Norman" as follows:

Dearest Stormin Norman, Your reason for being in Bolivia does not pass the smell test; that dog does not hunt. Get it? Game over.

Why don’t you define who you are and what you are doing in Bolivia. Better yet, before you showed up on this blog, where have you been the past few years while CIA torture/war crimes have become a rallying cry and the best recruitment tool for Al Qaeda imaginable because of the conduct of CIA operatives like you seem to be or "wannabe". Some people might think you were likely torturing people who were unfortunate enough to be an Iraqi in the wrong place at the wrong time which led them to be tortured. . . err, . . . I mean interrogated by you at Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo.

Now, you probably only recently popped up on Jim’s blog because Bush decided to pay attention to Bolivia. . . . is what a reasonable person might think.

Your cover may have been blown by your jingoist attitude that says “I torture people for a living” as a subtext for your misrepresentations and Republican speaking points that disguise propaganda as opinion.

Bolivians may be dumb, but we are not as dumb as you and whoever stationed you in Boliva thinks we are. It is not credible that an American would go to Santa Cruz when there are much better business opportunities in more stable areas. However, if headquarters in Langley, Virginia, stationed you in Bolivia to assist the Cruceno insurgents in the upcoming civil war. . .

Now the fun part, the line by line refutation:

Norman: "I’ve noticed that being in Hollywood qualifies you as an expert on politics, war, and tactics."

Me: Being an educated Bolivian qualifies me as an expert on what it means to have people like you stationed in Bolivia to suppress the indigent people’s struggle for equality, justice and a fair opportunity to pursue happiness. The very same principles guaranteed by the U.S. constitution that you and your fellow Bush lackeys are taking away from U.S. citizens like myself. One freedom at a time.

Norman: "This isn’t unusual though as most people in Hollywood automatically become experts in these fields upon reaching voting age."

Me: I am waiting to read how you define yourself so that I understand the basis of you being allowed to consider yourself judge and jury of citizen-advocates like myself and the artistic community in Hollywood. Remember, if we do a harm against a person it is only in a movie or a play whereas you probably torture people, since you act like a CIA interrogator.

Norman: "While the Morales government has realized that the Andean Trade Promotion part is desirable after all, they still are not sold on the Drug Eradication Act portion of it. It’s a package deal."

Me: Now, you are showing who you are: a Bush employee or wannabe who thinks he is authorized to set forth foreign policy.

Norman: "Concerning the recent paro, you may not have noticed from your vantage point, but there really wasn’t that much violence."

Me: "much violence"? Compared to what? Compared to the bombs people like you dropped (or ratified or approved) on women, children and the elderly in NORTHERN LEBANON were only “collateral damage” of attacks directed at Hezbollah in SOUTHERN LEBANON.

Bull, I got plenty of reports from friends in Santa Cruz and even El Deber and some of the papers in Tarija admitted that even a child was burned to death by the hooligans that CIA money is believed to have funded.

Norman: "I don’t even have to compare it to the mob violence Evo has so often incited."

Me: Bull, unless you can give us facts, stop your George Bush Bull argumentation.

Norman: "There probably will be starting on the 20th. The MAS mobs will try to shut down the International Fair. They will blockade roads, start fires, stone cars, slash tires and extort crossing fees, etc."

Me: Bull, again. Unless you can support your assertions with facts the readers of this should disregard your CIA bullshit.

Norman: "By the way, just what is your definition of a fascist?"

Me: Fascism: ultra-right wing ideology including but limited to corporatism, authoritarianism, nationalism, militarism, anti-communism and anti-progressive democrats.

Now, answer the questions asked above and tell us if you are a wannabe CIA, CIA or just a subcontracted mercenary of Haliburton, Bechtel or some other transnational.

Norman: "If Mr. Morales believes that civil war is pending, he needs to work to avoid it and seek common ground, not listen to instigators like you."

Me: While you are probably arming the paramilitary groups, you would have Evo do nothing to prepare for a possible coup. If anything has primacy in Evo’s order of operations,
Evo needs to expose you for what your probable real mission in Bolivia is.

Norman: "Have you ever seen a charred body two-weeks dead?"
Me: Apparently you have because of your familiarity. Was it a young girl that you first raped before you shot her in the head and burned her as recently occurred on more than one occasion in Iraq?

Norman: "Have you tried to feed the starving survivors?"

Me: Survivors of what? Your incoherence can be followed but you appear to be experiencing a flashback that probably requires you to take your medications.

Note to readers: many torturers must take medications to overcome their suicidal tendencies and clinical depression because of their guilt complexes. As the Bible teaches us, “You reap what you sow” means if you torture and murder civilians then you might incoherently refer to “starving survivors” as your mind deteriorates.

Norman: "Do you have any idea what it is you are inciting?"

Me: It is you has been doing all the “inciting” with your falsehoods, misrepresentations and attacks against Evo while claiming that he “needs to seek common ground”. Why don’t you seek common ground. But from some other part of the world by donating money to a Bolivian orphanage. It will go a long way to easy your guilty conscience.

Norman: "I don’t need any more dead friends nor do I need to hear idiots crying for war from the VIP lounge."

Me: On second thought, stop taking your anti-depressants and just commit suicide. You will finally seem to be slipping off into having a good nights rest. After that, you will be judged by God.

In closing, Norman, I thank you. It has been fun but I am having doubts as to you being CIA because surely they could not be hiring such people like you. Although, with dummy Bush as president. . .

8:27 AM  
Blogger Norman said...

I'm debating a teenager. I'm reading through your 3 pages of misguided speculation looking for something worth responding to... Am I a CIA plant or wannabe or mercenary or something like it? No, I'm just someone who has been to war; Desert Storm / Desert Shield. I’ve been shot at. I’ve had friends killed. I’ve seen the bodies of the victims of war. No, I didn’t kill them. And I’ve brought food to the survivors; mostly hungry kids in Kuwait. It wasn’t much. I should have done more. My experience was minor, just a couple of months. I’ve spent a lot of time listening to the Vietnam vets. And I’ve studied history.

My point is that the consequences of war go beyond what you typically think about. Quit inciting violence. I’m not interested in seeing indigenous dead or Cruceños dead.

Go ahead and rant on... I’m done with you.

12:43 PM  
Anonymous Boliviana100% said...

I would like to apology as well, I did write in anger, and still am. It saddens and angers me to see Bolivians inciting such violence, regardless if they are cambas, collas or chapacos, indigenous, etc. No one who can wish Bolivia such misery, should be identifying themselves as Bolivian, Camba, Colla, Chapaco, Orignario etc. And by the way I don't speak as I write. This is a blog, and a place where I can freely express myself, be completely irreverent to any sort of protocol so long I am not damaging anyone...


Regardless of whoever Norman is and whoever you are... Norman is right... An eye for an eye is going to make the whole world blind (A cliché quote from Gandhi, which is an ultimate truth).

A civil war will not only eternally scar our history, but bring much more misery into this country. It would most probably lead to atrocious events such as those that lingered in the Balkans for so many years.

From your comments, so far, I think you are extremely naïve and have blindfolded yourself. Remember AYO AYO? In the case of the child in Tarija, who ever did it, did not aim to harm the child, I think it was atrocious and in spite of their lack of knowledge I think they should face the consequences and serve their sentence, on the other hand in Ayo Ayo they tied a man to a pole and burnt him alive, people watching and not doing anything, I think they should all be behind bars… The man who tied him and the spectators. They are all accomplices of an extremely atrocious crime; how could people sit there and glare at a man turning into ashes and not do anything?) I want to make it clear, that I am not giving the examples to say one is worse than the other, but to show you the extremity of violence, the outcome of people taking justice into their own hands. How a tiny percentage of a population can scar society so badly.

Promises will always be made by your governors as it is their duty to listen, and generally this government is extremely approachable, but it is not necessarily their duty to do as you tell them to do. We (a group of sme’s owners, economists, and businessmen from El Alto, La Paz and Santa Cruz) have repeatedly asked Lineras, Villegas, Barbery and Solon, to attend the ATPDEA since FEBRUARY, a week after they took over. Lineras met with us in FEBRUARY, MARCH, APRIL, MAY… The truth is that they left it for too long. You know what were their responses, always? “We are working on alternative markets, and we will also negotiate with the US, do not worry”. They always used a soft, paternal voice, the sort that soothed your worries… They were always extremely cordial and respectful. However, it took them months to realize that without the ATPDEA, El Alto will fall into misery (Even though we were telling them since the beginning of February). Until June, Solon’s response was that we could not be submissive, that we had help from the TCP. The truth is that they were unwilling to rearrange their anti-drug policy, negotiate some coca for thousands and thousands of jobs that directly or indirectly depend on the ATPDEA, and even more thousands of children that depend on their parent’s income. They don’t have to make coca illegal but have to produce an efficient plan to fight drugs, which they haven’t.

They were too stubborn, too submerged in their own dogma. They must learn to be flexible, they must learn to leave grudges behind and rule for all Bolivians. They have to stop being so dogmatic and start being more pragmatic. And Evo has to stop messing up; just two days ago he was accusing the US of planning a complot, while Lineras is trying extending the ATPDEA… What would a congressman do after listening to this mixed message? Laugh at Lineras soft speech while thinking of President’s Evo radicalism and unfounded accusations. He never presents proofs.
I sincerely hope you reconsider your thoughts. I don’t care if you are a teenager or an adult, but if people that surround you think like you do, and Bolivians start thinking like you, we are destined to wretched future.

4:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Norm's a snitch.

4:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good article on the Balkans. How the U.S. destroyed Yugoslavia they will do the same to Bolivia and wipe their hands clean hey Norm Snitch

http://www.iacenter.org/bosnia/tragedy.htm#tragedytoc

Truth on the mid east crisis

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&sourceid=igoogle

4:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some interesting quotes from the article above:

"For 45 years the Yugoslav Federation—six republics and two autonomous regions—was able to hold the Western powers at bay. It was able to develop industry in an impoverished, underdeveloped area and raise the standard of living. The fact that the IMF and U.S. banks were able to again strangle and dismember it does not negate its historical accomplishment."

"On March 18, 1992, a negotiated agreement for a unified state brokered by the European Community was reached in Lisbon among the Bosnian Muslim, Croatian and Serb forces. This agreement of all three parties would have prevented the disastrous civil war that began that same year. It would have saved the hundreds of thousands of refugees whose lives have been destroyed by war.

Washington sabotaged this original agreement by telling the Bos nian regime of Alija Izetbegovic that it could get much more—possibly domination of the whole region—with U.S. backing. The U.S. role in destroying this carefully crafted agreement is acknowledged by all sides. Even the June 17, 1993, New York Times described Washington’s role. The U.S. government officially encouraged Izetbegovic, the head of the right-wing Party for Democratic Action, to unilaterally declare a sovereign state under his presidency.

Muslim groups in two separate areas of Bosnia have challenged the government led by Alija Izetbegovic. They dispute Izetbegovic’s claim that he represents the interests of the Muslim community. They want a policy of cooperation and trade with the other nationalities of the region. Both groups have condemned Izetbegovic for right-wing nationalist policies and reliance on U.S. military aid."

4:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am the party who engaged "Norman in a conversation/debate of sorts that appears to be his psycho-therapy. I respond to his last post as follows:

Desert Stormin Norman admits he is or was a professional killer. One who was hired to kill Iraqis for a living. Yet his disheveled mind claims his tour of duty was abnormal in that his “experience was minor, just a couple of months”. Like his unsupported misrepresentations within his other posts, his most recent lies do not pass the smell test. According to Abnormal Norman, he was in some type of a bubble of nonviolent innocence surrounded by “bodies of the victims of war”. Abnormal Norman expects us to believe he “didn’t kill them” despite that he “been shot at” and “had friends killed”.

His most pathetic, irrelevant statements are “I’ve spent a lot of time listening to the Vietnam vets. And I’ve studied history.” What that has to do with Bolivia, we will never know. It appears to only show Norman is abnormal from us in that he probably suffers from too much exposure to the depleted uranium in the munitions used by the canon fodder type of soldier Norman was. His incoherent writings show an absence of a pattern of reasoning which seems to indicate he needs medical attention.

Perhaps for:
“Gulf War syndrome (GWS) or Gulf War illness (GWI) which is the name given to an illness with symptoms including increases in the rate of immune system disorders and birth defects, reported by combat veterans of the 1991 Gulf War.

It has not always been clear whether these symptoms were related to Gulf War service. Symptoms attributed to this syndrome have been wide-ranging, including chronic fatigue, loss of muscle control, migraines and other headaches, dizziness and loss of balance, memory problems, muscle and joint pain, indigestion, skin problems, and shortness of breath. U.S. Gulf War veterans have experienced mortality rates exceeding those of U.S. Vietnam veterans. Brain cancer deaths, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (commonly known as Lou Gehrig's disease) and fibromyalgia are now recognized by the Defense and Veterans Affairs departments as potentially connected to service during the Persian Gulf War. [1]”
www.wikipedia.org.

Having read the above, one is likely to have an idea why Abnormal Norman is obsessed by his need to have “spent a lot of time listening to the Vietnam vets”. And to study their “history” of mental illness and mortality rates?

Who knows what the truth is about who Norman is and why he is suddenly in Bolivia spreading disinformation about Evo that increases the polarization that follows Abnormal Norman's lies.

What we know is this:
1) While creating class hatred against Evo's social movement, Abnormal Norman seeks Evo not to prepare for a possible civil war; and
2) The truth is definately not contained in Norman's posts for their filled with lies and his abnormalities.

4:41 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

Anon: If you're really interested in continuing this, click on my name above. My email is in my profile. This is getting boring.

5:06 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Readers:
Please note above how abnormal "Norman" is. He posts and then removes his posts. Why?

Perhaps one reason is because instead of responding to my reasoned opinons and suggestions, he attacked me by calling me an "idiot". (Which I regard as an honor, since it comes from emotionally unstable, "abnormal" Norman.) Most bizarre of all, he then invites me to engage in interpersonal communication with HIM. I am still laughing about how he could possibly think anyone would want anything to do with someone as dishonest and abnormal as himself.

Hopefully, if he ever posts again, he will try to think first then write substantive, civil posts that attempt to present a reasoned opinion or idea.

May all our posts contribute to developing a dialogue that advances democracy in our beloved Bolivia.

2:14 PM  
Anonymous DO AS YOU SAY said...

Anon, you should do as you say...
Hope some day you write "substantive, civil posts that attempt to present a reasoned opinion or idea.

May all our posts contribute to developing a dialogue that advances democracy in our beloved Bolivia."

5:11 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

Thanks for the correction Anon. I'll try to be substantive and civil in my next post.

5:38 PM  
Anonymous Anon said...

Because they were posted within a half an hour of each other, I suspect Norman and "DO AS YOU SAY" are the same person. But so what, I still want to thank Norman for the contrite, apologetic tone of his post and I look forward to his efforts to post civil, reasoned opinion or ideas.

As for DO AS YOU SAY:
Please note that before I responded to Norman with a line by line refutation of his posts in the same tone as his posts were written (vitriolic) I opined in a reasoned manner. Please illuminate my understanding how my initial post was not civil or based on reasoning.

In that post I provided context and stated advice I would give to Garcia-Linares based on my opinion that Bolivia is on the verge of a civil war:
1) ". . . Evo should try to be a uniter that takes into consideration the media luna's (Santa Cruz, Beni, Tarija etc.) fears of being steam rolled by constitutional laws passed by a simple majority in Sucre."

OR "in the alternative"
2)". . . do everything to the Cruceno fascists that Bush is doing to the Iraquis and Lebanese so that Bush can not criticize him or invade Bolivia.
Do it all in the name of a war against Cruceno terrorism and public corrupcion."

Controversial advice but the second option is based on George Bush's reasoning and the reasoning set forth within said post.

Ps. not all posts that say "anonymous said...." were written by me. My posts are distinct.

8:15 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

So, two debutants are seated beside each other at the debutant dinner before the ball; one elegantly dressed in a white chiffon gown and the other more humbly in a light blue, slightly used dress. As they serve the dinner, the humbly dressed debutant begins to tuck her napkin under her chin. The elegantly dressed one clears her throat loudly and in a stage whisper says, “My dear, your napkin is to be placed on your lap. My mother taught me that!” to which the first meekly replies “Why, thank you for the correction.” Somewhat abashed, she then selects the fork from the middle of the three forks at her plate. The more cultured girl again chides her “Oh honey, you use the outside fork for this course of the meal. My father taught me that!” Again, the mousy girl in the light blue dress replies, “Why, thank you for the correction.” Finally as tea is served the less seasoned girl noisily slurps hers to cool it off. By now completely at a loss for the lack of culture the other tells her “A lady does not slurp! She sips.” Almost under her breath, the first girl again replies, “Why, thank you for the correction.” Then the haughty girl asks “Didn’t your parents teach you anything before coming to this dinner?” Almost gleaming, the first girl brightly says, “Why yes, they did! They taught me to say ‘Why, thank you for the correction’ instead “Why don’t you shut up, you idiot!”

10:07 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

Sorry, Jim. I couldn't resist ;-)

10:10 PM  
Anonymous Anon said...

Why, thank you for the correction parable.

12:04 AM  
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