A Reflection
We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools.
-- Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. 1964
-- Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. 1964
posted by The Democracy Center at 10:07 PM
Tuesday, January 16, 2007
The Democracy Center
The Democracy Center, based in Cochabamba Bolivia and San Francisco California, works globally to advance human rights through a combination of investigation and reporting, training citizens in the art of public advocacy, and organizing international citizen campaigns. If you like the Blog, consider becoming a subscriber to The Democracy Center's free e-newsletter by sending us an email at contact@democracyctr.org
Previous Posts
- Well, I Guess You Can Count Out Compromise…
- A Lot of People and a Lot of Tear Gas Canisters
- Soldiers with Lanyards, and a Tense Wait
- Cochabamba: Somewhat Back to Normal but Waiting
- And Now, an Exit Strategy
- My Cochabamba Article on Pacific News Service
- A Brief Note About Comments
- The Numbers Grow
- Walking the Battle Zone
- War Zone
41 Comments:
fools are the ones that stay in Bolivia to perish; the ones that learn to leave together as brother are gone to other countries or they are ready to leave.
Fools are the ones that believe dying for your country is your duty; the ones that can learn, they know the world is their country.
Dear Jim,
From what I can tell you are sincere in your commitment to helping the poor and downtrodden, you are well educated, and highly experienced in the world of politics.
It is only the more frustrating for me, then, knowing that you are familiar with the writings of MLK, Thoreau, J.S. Mill, and the like and yet fail to explicitly denounce the latest operations of the MAS crowd.
Are you (and your Democracy Center fellows) forgetting the brave souls in Montgomery who under the leadership of Rev. Dr. MLK walked wherever they needed to go for over a year? A year of walking! Through no fault of their own, the campesinos occupying the CBBA center do not know their history. They do not know about the courageous stand in Montgomery or of Ghandi's Salt March to Dandi. But you do. And in my humble opinion, your knowledge makes your silence culpable.
Blockades, cutting access to water (and all the rest) are simply not appropriate responses to MRV's legal move toward a referendum. I'm assuming you know this since you make no attempt to make a serious argument justifying the reaction of the MAS crowd to MRV's move toward a (unpopular) legal democratic procedure. Your failure to condemn the MAS crowd on this point is, in the long run, a failure on your part to help the very people you seem to have a heart to help. Because the sooner they abandon the present modus operandi, the sooner they can achieve the aims that they (and you) hold dear.
Best,
PR
PR:
Your argument is unsound. Your premise is fatally flawed.
You wrote:
"I'm assuming you know this since you make no attempt to make a serious argument justifying the reaction of the MAS crowd to MRV's move toward a (unpopular) legal democratic procedure."
"legal democratic procedure"?
Even Manfred acknowledged the referendum was "unconstitutional". Yet you rest your case on it being a "legal democratic procedure".
Aristotle said that he who asserts, must prove.
The burden of prove is on you to show how it is that said unlawful procedure is "legal democratic procedure" when the law that I previously cited for you clearly states another referendum can not be held until the next constitutional period?
Inquiring minds want to know. What is the basis of your opinion of law that it was legal?
Manfred proposed a second referendum on autonomy. Proposing a second referendum too soon is not illegal; holding one is. This should have been addressed in a legal forum. Why do you protest the illegality of a second referendum but defend the much more illegal method in which it was blocked? Impeding free transit is still illegal in Bolivia, isn't it? Cutting off food and water to a population is illegal, no? Threatening to beat anyone with the audacity to try to travel a highway? Actually beating them? For one so versed in the law, why do you only hold on to it when it supports your side and hold it in contempt when it supports your opposition? Why is the MAS so afraid of handling this in a legal fashion?
Why are you changing the subject? The issue at hand is stated above.
We've already discussed civil disobedience and the inappropriate and counter-productive direct actions taken.
Grindio, you are a hoot! I´m sorry you can´t see the connection to your post. By the way, it´s "burden of proof" for you lawyers out there, not "burden of prove".
Attacking my typo-written in a quick comment-is the best response you can muster when you wrote this on your stale unfrequented blog:
"this really is blogging light, but I'll work to keep up on it".
Your use of the word "light" was back in September.
You did not keep your word "to keep up on it" since you never again wrote anything. But then you define yourself as an "active" Republican Catholic. Thus, you know all about being a hypocrite.
60% of Catholic priests are said to be homosexual and their use of the church like a pick-up place for sexual predators has been well established. Let's not forget your gay Republican mafia that covered up the use of congressional pages as sexual prey. Or your fellow Republican Bush's evangelical moral guide, Taggert, who used drugs with a homosexual prostitute. Your motto should be Republican "active" Catholics: "Hypocrites R Us"
Which goes to the narrow issue I framed that went unanswered. Your pathetic effort to muddle the narrow scope with a straw man argument can be dismissed as follows.
According to your Republican Catholic values, it is legal to propose a plan to commit an illegal act.
Wrong.
Just like it would be illegal for an "active" Catholic priest to come to you with an "active" plan to homosexually rape two altar boys. According to your logic it is not illegal to propose it. It is only illegal apparently when you are "active" in penetrating your prey. You argument is that all up until that moment was a "legal" proposal to do something illegal.
Do you understand why that would be illegal now to? But then Catholic and Republican is not anything that comes to mind with moral rectitude. Instead, pedophilia, corruption and hypocrites are the associations that come to mind regarding "active" Catholic and "active" Republican.
Per the "active" values expressed by you, would you make an "active" speed dial call to your fellow "active" Republicans like Mark Foley to join in the party? Is that how it is with you "active" Catholic Republican hypocrites"?
Remember that that expressing an intent to commit a crime is illegal next time you meet with your "active" 60%-likely-to-be-homosexual priest or your fellow hypocrites, err, ... "active" Republicans who held the honor of having the most corrupt congress in the history of the US.
Touched a nerve, did I? Please go to my site for a response. Jim has a decent site here and I don't like clog it with personal attacks.
Hmmmm... looks like "Mr. Tolerance" has a few skeletons in his closet.
One of my favorite friends, is litigating a case against the Catholic Church. He is the only attorney that refuses to settle because he intends to go to trial.
The stonewalling that Cardinal Mahoney has engaged is shocking. It is designed to protect himself and his cohorts (who are alleged to have committed acts of pedophilia) and bankrupt my friend's firm. And the "active" catholics, they fall silent or aid and abet Mahoney's conduct instead fulfilling the mandates set forth by Christ.
In essence, I have a strong dislike for hypocrites and that provided me with my muse.
Norman is clearly a hypocritical "active" catholic. His blog shows he is incapable of original thought for he wrote nothing since September despite promises to do so to his whopping 2 or 3 readers.
His "active" catholic faith is such that instead of debating the points in a lenghty post about the root cause of our recent civil disturbances, that I copied and pasted from a young professional educator's blog, he buried it by posting his blurb three or four times. His lack of ability to generate original thoughts was shown by his inability to write a lengthy post and instead just repeating his post until her post was removed from view.
He is kind of like frank ibc who does not know how to write a valid argument so he posts blurbs that add nothing to the debate.
As for Norman's pathetic marketing attempt to at least lure one more viewer to his blog before he shuts it down, I am not interested in reading more of blurbs than unfortunately cross my path here.
Norman is a marine. How many marines are on trial for murder, rape or torture of Iraq civilians?
Is it more than Republicans on trial for corruption?
E-G, I could care less how many go to my site; else I'd be posting more. I prefer to keep Jim's blog to Bolivia events. But there are lurkers who revel in defamation so I give them a more appropriate place to defame me. You prefer an audience though. Your vitriolic remarks, anger and hatred are telling. Peace to you brother.
Norman, I am not your brother for I am a Bolivian with this to say about the positions you take with yourself as the authority of why one must accept what you say is the way things are:
1) your loser blog reflects who you are. It is your unique journal that tells the world what you have to say, which is:
You have nothing original to say thus you did not post anything on it.
2) Since nobody visits your lonely blog, you cannot respond with customary blogs of cliches, homilies and unimaginative ways to say the "same old same old".
3) I frame a specific narrow issue, you intervene and set up a straw man. I ask why you change the subject and then I tear down your straw man and extend your line of thought. You refuse to answer the questions and instead you "cut-and-run", "active" Catholic and Republican that you are.
4) Why do you refuse to discuss the controversial issues above that your tactics opened the door to? Is it because you're just an ageing jarhead who enlisted instead of educated himself? Have you committed God knows what unlawful and/or ungodly acts in which far-off lands that you now defend yourself by your psychological state of avoidance?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Further, its ok to hate evil and evildoers.
I shall condense the issues you refuse to respond to and I look forward to use them as an introduction in any response I feel compelled to direct to you.
Peace,
You make my day. :-)
It's not often I get to address my positions against three suspect classes: "active" Catholics who should be held accountable as enablers; "active" Republicans who (need I say more, Republicans speaks volumes as to why they and Bush are globally reviled); Marines (who are the self-appointed torturers, rapists and murderers of innocent civilians for the benefit of those who contributed to Republican coffers).
Till your next post.
You are, of course, correct in that my blog is nothing impressive. I’d be happy to debate you at your site if you will direct me to it. Well, this particular thread seems pretty dead, so if Jim will indulge me, I will very briefly respond. You’re writing in a bit of a hurry though and making less sense than usual so I’m afraid I haven’t much to say in response to your opening two points. I’ll leave it at this: I don’t claim authority; I make arguments and try to avoid insulting others in the process.
You read my profile and attacked me for being a Catholic, a Republican (you said “active” Republican; I said disenchanted Republican) and a Marine. I’m guilty of all three. What do they have to do with the subject above that you claim that I side-railed? What is it that you want to debate? How about Catholicism? Is that appropriate for the Bolivia Blog?
Grindio, up until this thread, you appeared as a reasoning individual on the opposite side of the issues (relative to me). Now you come across as rabid and prejudicial. You’ve pre-judged all Catholics, Republicans and US military based on what? You espouse hatred. Who are these evildoers that you hate so much? Your inflammatory and libelous statements above are designed to elicit a heated response from me. Anyway, take your time, pick a single topic, and try to form a coherent argument. I’ll be glad to respond. I just don't think that Jim's blog is the appropriate forum.
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