Tuesday, August 26, 2008

What Happened to "Democracy equals 2/3?"

I saw one again the other day, a pale blue relic stuck to a shelf of a lawyer's office in Cochabamba, a small flag reading: “2/3 Democracia”.

Not so long ago the streets of Cochabamba, Santa Cruz and a few other Bolivian cities were full of such flags, symbols of the opposition’s demand that each individual plank of the new constitution be approved by full 2/3 vote of the Constituent Assembly.

Well-scrubbed youth could be seen wearing the same slogan on white t-shirts. I remember asking one such young woman who worked in a restaurant on El Prado here why she felt so strongly about the issue. "The owner told us to wear them."

Well that's one reason.

Nevertheless it was a heartfelt and aggressively advocated position. The nation should not go forward, we were told, on a path supported only by a simple majority. Bolivia needed something closer to a national consensus. And 2/3, dos tercios, was the chosen target, printed on flags and painted on walls like the one pictured above.

It's looking now like some of those Morales opponents wished they'd chosen a higher number, like maybe 9/10. On August 10 more than 67% of those casting ballots gave their vote in favor the Morales Presidency, and the course he is advocating for the nation.

So much for 2/3.

A Nation Divided, but not 50/50

Bolivia is a divided nation, to be sure. But it is not a nation divided in half. It is a nation divided by 2/3 on one side and 1/3 on the other, each demanding that the country be steered its way. Put more simply, imagine three people in a car on a road trip, arguing over directions at a fork in the road. Two people in the front seat want to go left, and the guy in the back wants to go right. Allowing sufficient time for discussion and argument of all views, at a certain point, do we really think that the guy yelling alone in the backseat ought to dictate the decision? Neither do most Bolivians.

The August 10 elections not only revealed the actual numbers on support and opposition to Morales, they also showed us where that split resides geographically. Gone is the argument that the nation is split in half east and west. Evo won majorities in two of the five supposed anti-Evo departments, Chuquisaca and Pando, and split the vote 50/50 in a third, Tarija.

In real numbers the opposition to Evo is really concentrated in two places, the cities of Santa Cruz and Sucre, urban areas surrounded by a good number of rural Morales backers. In other parts of Bolivia, especially the countryside, Morales support commonly exceeds 75%.

But those two cities know how to make noise and it is noise they are making now, seemingly all the louder as their political isolation becomes more clear and more certain.

Who Says it’s Your Oil?


Ostensibly the current battle lines are around revenue from gas and oil. Leaders of the eastern departments, including those Evo won, are demanding a greater share of that revenue and Morales insists on taking a piece to fund pensions for the elderly.

This analysis has gotten more attention of late, especially as Santa Cruz and others have shut themselves down in protest. But there are two big things left often forgotten.

The first is what I like to call, "But you haven’t even finished the slice of pie you have!"

Take a look at the budget figures for departments in Bolivia. As in most low-income countries, governments in Bolivia never spend all the money in the budgets they have. They just don’t have the capacity to get the money out the door. What do the departmental governments want to spend the money for that surpasses what they already have? It is not an unreasonable question.

Of course the Governors would like more money from oil and gas. Here in Cochabamba, Manfred Reyes Villa was one of the governors who complained most bitterly for a bigger share of oil and gas cash. But what did he buy with the gas and oil money he did have? Well, a dubious fleet of brand new overpriced Toyota Land Cruisers, three of which were a part of his personal entourage (I watched the motorcade in action on Election Day in Plaza Colon).

FYI, having shopped around for cars myself earlier this year I think Manfred could have done just as nicely, and much cheaper, with a 1995 two-door Toyota Rav4. Just be sure to super glue your taillights to the car (they get stolen).

The second problem with the gas and oil revenue analysis is what I like to call, "Who says its your oil and gas?"

For more than two years we have been hearing from leaders in Santa Cruz and Tarija about “our gas and oil, our gas and oil,” based on the claim that the luck of geology put it under their feet. But these are leaders from the cities, and the gas and oil is under the ground in the rural areas of those departments, including areas where Morales and MAS enjoy a good deal of political support.

It won’t be too much longer before the leaders of the Santa Cruz Civic Committee suddenly feel a tap on their shoulder from behind and a voice saying, “Hey dude, in case you haven’t noticed, that gas and oil you like to talk about as yours – it ain’t under Alexander’s Cafe or Burger King.”

Elections Ought to Mean Something

And finally there is this. Aren’t elections supposed to mean something?

Three times in a row now, by escalating majorities, Evo and MAS have won national elections – the Presidential vote in 2005, the Assembly vote in 2006, and again this month.

Yes, Evo and MAS should negotiate with their adversaries. Yes, MAS should not seek to build a monolithic state in which it assumes too much power. Yes, national operations should be decentralized so that people don't have to take a bus to La Paz to process a simple public form. But look folks, the vast majority of Bolivians have spoken, and spoken, and spoken, in favor of a turn of direction and it is time to let the government they selected govern.

This isn’t Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada in 2003, elected with less than 25% of the vote and half as popular as that by the time he fled to Maryland. This is a genuine and historic mandate. If all those people who, a year ago, said they were fighting for “democracy” meant it, then doesn’t democracy also mean that the majority, especially a strong one, ought to decide the nation’s path.

It might be time in Bolivia to take out all those old "2/3 Democracia" t-shirts and flags once more. Some of the people wearing and waving them could use the reminder.

64 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Boy, will you get flamed for this one! Just wait for the insults.
By the way, I´m not that Anonymous, or even the other, but altogether a different one.

2:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sure he has a mandate, but there is also a Congress, a Judicial system, a CPE, and whole bunch of laws that would still be in place even if he had 99.99% of the vote.

Now, let's not get ahead of ourselves. The MAS is planning on using Jim's logic to pass thru a series of decretos to get (1) pass their CPE and (2) get Evo re-elected.

I would have no problem with either, but the MAS CPE is fatally flawed and has several human rights violations. As far as having Evo re-elected, well we all know what happens to Bolivian Presidents after their first term.

3:14 PM  
Blogger Viasolus said...

It can only be expected that a ruling party attempting to accomplish social change, especially when that change bucks the historic trends of power, will endeavour to enshrine their gains. Do anyone of us really believe that the powers of oil, the east, the West, et al, can be held off forever? And when they do come storming back in their new land cruisers and privatized assets, it would be nice to see something concrete to slow them down.

3:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RE: "MAS CPE is fatally flawed and has several human rights violations"

No, it isn't fatally flawed and no it doesn't have several human rights violations! There now it's a wash and since the chap above made this an assertion-fest, how's this for good measure:

Costas' Estatuto Autonomico is fatally flawed and has several human rights violations!

Now may we proceed with the decretos to pass the CPE and get Evo's well-deserved re-election. Bolivia's democracy merits allowing its system to work.

3:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry anon 3:38

It is not a frivolous assertion, sorry to dissappoint you:

http://www.democracyctr.org/blog/2008/03/strikingly-bad-way-to-make-and-not-make.html


And regarding the Estatuto, I can't get past Article 7, so how do you like them apples?? Please don't pull a Grindio and assume that just because I opposse certain sections of the MAS CPE that automatically means I support the Estatuto 100% and to the death.

4:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On re-election. One small point here, that would mean that the voters wanted Evo to be their President again. Hmmm, isn't that democracy? And Presidential relection, now that is a radical concept found nowhere else on earth, right?

I am the other anonymous, just to make things clear.

4:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

nothing against having a president re-elected, but you have the Bolivian corruption context there. I would not be against Evo giving it a try, but I would advice him against consecutive terms.

5:16 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

Hey Anons 3:38PM & 4:11PM,

I agree and disagree with both of you:
1) Evo's re-election requires vigilance as to corruption surfacing.
2) Article 7 is problematic and the context within which the CPE was drafted is also problematic.
3) Here's a novel idea. Try something wild: allow Bolivians to vet the CPE during the campaign and then vote on it. Let Bolivians decide if it is "fatally flawed" or if its merits outweigh its messy birth (passage likely based on Evo's percentage of the national vote).

While we're at it, put the estatuto up for a 2/3 vote approval too (passage not likely since Costas did not reach that percentage of approval).

Bottom-Up-Democracy in action; what a novel concept!

8:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

*Put more simply, imagine three people in a car on a road trip* Cute analogy, but wouldn't you agree that the Media Luna drives the economy, and everyone else is a passenger?

9:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If grindio is implying that each regions autonomous constoitution has to be approved by 2/3 of Bolivia, I agree, of course indigenous constitutions would have to pass this hurdle as well

10:18 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

Anon 10:18 holds out the proposition that every entity be it local, regional, or national (indigenous or state) must pass a threshold issue:
approval by 2/3 of Bolivia.

That was not what I meant. My initial reaction is to ask what standing does a voter voting in El Alto have to determine the duties, rights regarding a voter in Santa Cruz? However, it is a an interesting proposition.

One should thoughtfully consider it before stating a position regarding that idea. It sets a national standard that leads to common ground as to duties, rights of all within all jurisdictions. It is worth considering more fully and testing it for advantages and disadvantages or net benefits compared to competing plans.

As to Anon 9:1PM, they should agree that if the Media Luna is the current driver and others are but passengers, it was:
1) indigenous miners who bought the metaphorical vehicle with their sweat, tears, health of their lungs and their lives in Bolivia's mines. Said sacrifices funded Europe's expansion as well as Santa Cruz's.
2) indigenous soldiers who sacrificed their lives to protect said metaphorical vehicles for the current and future generations. Said sacrifices were made in the Chaco War and preserved the natural resources which are at issue in Costas' and Branko's efforts to hotwire said vehicle for their joyride.

10:42 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

I don't know what I was thinking regarding the above. It is not possible for every region's and every indigenous tribe's constitution to be reviewed and voted upon by Bolivian voters in an informed manner. Too time consuming.

Suffice it to put a supremacy clause in the CPE. Thereby if it conflicts with any region or indigenous tribe's constitution (which must pass by 2/3 of their voters) then the State's CPE is controlling because it is the supreme law of the land.

3:14 AM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

This just in:

Busted meeting in secret with Costas, Goldberg was called out on the carpet by Choquhuanca.
Caught red-handed, Goldberg cooked up a wild explanation claiming he went to Santa Cruz to attend another matter and met publicly with Costas (since he was in the neighborhood, I guess).

Just one problem, the meeting was unannounced and secret. No member of the public or press was allowed at their pow-wow.

See link below, which is not yet available in "Shakespeare's English" as this blog's resident cultural imperialist decreed all posts should be:

http://www.abi.bo/index.php?i=noticias_texto_paleta&j=20080826230021&k=

3:21 AM  
Blogger Norman said...

E-G, Goldberg comes through Santa Cruz for events about twice a month; almost as often as morales... but you knew that. Something like the handicapped olympics will invite every dignitary from every embassy around... but you knew that. You're making much more of this than evo or Choquehuanca... but you knew that.

8:15 AM  
Blogger BOLIVIA LIBRE said...

Yea, what happened to the 2/3 votes “before” de Evo recall referendum victory; it is still so funny to me when hard core maSSist like Jim try to pull out the 2/3 card now that one of them is finally in their hands. If we follow the analogy and “respect” Evo’s 2/3, we should also ask for the maSSist to respect all the 2/3 cards that appeared since the beginning of their regime’s days and will have to respect the Governor’s 2/3 during the recall referendum. Did Jim mention anything about their 2/3?, no? I wander why?; no, not really.

Regarding Evo’s reelection and somebody’s suggesting the blood born maSSist proposed new constitution going to the urns now, after Evo’s marvelous 2/3. I will have to mention them that the old constitution forbids this because our forefathers new themselves as they knew their future generations, us. If the above happens, the entity in power, Evo with the maSSist in today’s case, will have unlimited money and other “under the table” resources, to easily beat the opposition. It happened with MNR after the Agrarian Revolution, where a couple of their leaders got over the 2/3 mark in “clean” democratic elections. It happened when an obscure military named Pereda won “clean” democratic elections just before he was ousted and it just happened again with Evo Morales, who’s campaign spend over 76% more than the opposition just on television advertisement. Money coming from our taxes, from our IDH, etc; which was supposed to be use for the benefit of the people on not for the benefit of the few in the ruling party. And this just on TV adds, if you add up the difference on money spend on mass mobilization of the electoral apparatus, then we can clearly see that the people that wrote our last constitution new what we are capable of doing.

Regarding Santa Cruz people rights on referring to the earnings of oil and gas as theirs; oh yes they surely have that right Jim. Learn a little of the story of the lowland Bolivia; the country doesn’t end in the Andes. The Santa Cruz people paid with blood, suffering and humiliation the right to see a small percentage of the oil and gas revenue staying for their benefit and after all the barbarities they endured the ruling party of the time had to give in and give them and other departments (states) what was rightfully theirs. Almost the same thing happened with the IDH, a decentralization reform benefiting all the departments (states) of the country thanks to the democratic mobilization IN Santa Cruz. I will need to say that your trying to imply that the Santa Cruz people want’s to keep “all” the oil and gas revenue for themselves is, well, pathetic.

11:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's your point, Jim?

Castro, Chavez, and (until recently) Mugabe have always been elected by a majority, and look how fine their countries turned out.

Democracy isn't necessarily freedom, Jim. Freedom is what matters. That's what Morales is trying to trample on.

;-)

The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina

1:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bolulibre resurfaces once he gets his goldberga approval.

Bolulibre says "his forefathers" Is he forgeting that his are in Croatia?

6:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Evo's defining comment...

....."I've learned that, above what is legal, there is politics. Given that, when my advisors tell me 'Evo, what you are doing is illegal', I just go ahead and do it and tell them: 'if it isn't legal, make it legal. That's why you studied..." ... Evo Morales

8:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was watching the youtube video GRINDIO posted about the attempted murder of Obama when I heard the suspect had possible ties to white supremacy groups.

I checked out StormFront.org (largest white supremacist online community) to see if they knew this man. I saw that they had a latin america section and was surprised to see a Bolivia thread.

I was aware that there was racism in Bolivia but I was not aware you had white supremacist groups and/or sympathizers.

Can someone explain who or what "Unión Radical Nacional Socialista Boliviana" is. There is a poster claiming he was the origianl founder of said group, and feels the movement is rejuvenated now more than ever.

Very sad that these type of people exist.

8:29 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

Thanks to the above commentator for informing us about the resurgance of the "Union Radical Nacional Socialista Boliviana". It's also good to get feedback regarding the video links I post. Informing readers here is the part of the intrinsic rewards I get for doing what I think is appropriate for all of us to do:
1) acknowledging a problem exists;
2) determining its significance;
3) examining its cause; and
4) weighing possible solutions instead of burying our heads in the sand because Norman says all is well.

As to white supremacist groups and/or sympathizers in Bolivia, here's how bold they are in Santa Cruz. (People would not be allowed to do this in the US without an uproar) Check out the first frame in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYDcRN_saiA

1:32 AM  
Blogger Norman said...

4) weighing possible solutions instead of burying our heads in the sand because Norman says all is well.

Actually, just 2 days ago in Jim's "Letter to NYT" thread I concurred with you on the racism issue and even cited further examples in Santa Cruz... but you knew that, didn't you? ;-)

2:04 AM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

This post has been removed by the author.

2:40 AM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

'2 days ago in Jim's "letter to NYT" thread', Norman wrote: “…I know of no direct link between the UJC and Costas, their most recent actions with the police chief are deplorable … To my knowledge, Costas did not do that. E-G likes to post that Republicans are machine-stamped automatons incapable of independent thought ”

Hmm, why would that be?

As evidenced above, on a date known to Norman, Costas and Branko summoned the police chief. They demanded the chief sign and agree to put himself and his force under their command. He refused and was ambushed by Costas and Branko’s UJC shortly after leaving Costas office at night as can be seen in the video below. The fat, grey-haired man in the video, who finally calls off the death trap’s thrashing, is Costa (as Norman knows).

Hmmm, “no direct link between the UJC and Costas” despite the video proving the link? (Norman wants us to believe the UJC were just out for a walk with their clubs? And Costas just went out for a walk with them when the chief beat their clubs with his head? )

Hmmm, “Costas did not do that”?

I think it is persuasive proof that Norman’s wild claims (refuted above) are those of “machine-stamped automatons incapable of independent thought”, or those of a human ostrich. Apparently, Norman would have us believe all is well in Santa Cruz as we would see if we were there like he is (inferring we should just trust his analysis because none of us are an "expert"). Apparently, in Norman's scenario, if we were in Santa Cruz, we would not see the things we see in so many internet videos. He's right.

Said evidence, like the video below, generally is censored from being shown in Santa Cruz's media or being shown in all the media owned by the ogliarchs. Only channel 7, Television Boliviana (the government channel which is not under the ogliarchs' control) showed the video.

Below is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbOgeoJmh0E

2:53 AM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

This post has been removed by the author.

3:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Goldberg drops by for a courtesy visit to an admired representative of the people of Santa Cruz such as Mr. Costas. The Bolivian government doesn't like it.

So?

Globetrotting Cuchi Cuchi worshipper's next stop is a visit to terrorist supporting nations vilified by the international community such as Libya and Iran. The US government doesn't like it.

As failed Democrats would use to ask, "Where's the beef?"

;-)

The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina

8:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is to anon @ 8:29 PM

There are quite a few white people out there that are still thinking of colonization by force. Part of this process is the spreading of the myth that the locals are 'stupid', and cannot fend for themselves.

What you observed in Stormfront.org is something quite common. And, in fact, these groups are probably closely linked to the UCJ, and other 'Civic' organizations.

Their target: Brown natives.

12:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon (aka Beni) says: "Castro, Chavez, and (until recently) Mugabe have always been elected by a majority, and look how fine their countries turned out."

The logic train steams in the Bolivia blog at a rate of knots. Logical fallacies are no object for this steer.

The logical fallacies being that, Castro and Mugabe are in fact dictators and do not have fair elections, while Evo and Chavez are popularly elected leaders with confirmed fair elections by the UN, the EU and the Carter Foundation.

Of course Evo could have just been elected by a MAS judge in a local Senate, like George Bush in 2000, then his mandate would have been rock solid, and he could have started an awesome war and brought about an amazing troop surge that turned the whole thing around.

Of course he could just take his 2/3 mandate, and do what the people tell him. That's how democracies worked the last time I checked. Oh sorry I forgot with his two thirds majority he is going to be a dictator, I'm sorry I didn't take logic at your high school.

12:55 PM  
Blogger bowsie said...

You are dead right Jim. The people have spoken overwhelmingly, and Santa Cruz and Sucre are punching above their weight with the demands they have. Evo needs to tackle autonomy and deliver autonomy that will work for all Bolivians, but he now should deliver his constitution and with delivering change for the vast majority of Bolivians.

You either believe in democracy or you don't.

1:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And I thought that Mugabe's and Castro's elections were fair and transparent. Silly me! Thanks for slapping for me the consciousness of millions of lefties around the world who still adore these paleodictators.

My point, Anon 12:55, is that democracy is not necessarily the solution for the ills that afflict a country. (Just look at the largest democracy, India, which has been in such a mess for decades and only now getting out of it thanks to capitalism) It's a tad better than a dictatorship, but to substitute it from an individual to the masses is too unpalatable. I don't care if democracy is from the bottom up, from top to bottom, bottoms up, bare bottoms, or sideways.

There are certain rights that cannot be trampled upon, no matter how large the majority is, such as free speech, an independent judiciary and legislative system, respect for property rights, and even the freedom to sport the haircut one desires, no matter how outdated or ridiculous (Yes, even Cuchi Cuchi worshipper has the right to his haircut, and I'll defend his right until the day I die).

That's the danger Cuchi Cuchi worshipper is engaging in: just as Chavez, he's positioning himself to take over the other branches of government to mold the constitution the way he wants and ram it down the country's throat, all to perpetuate himself in power.

Hitler was elected democratically, by the way.

Bottoms up!

;-)

The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina

1:40 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

This post has been removed by the author.

2:16 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

This just in from Gallup:

"PRINCETON, NJ -- Democratic candidate Barack Obama has gained ground in the latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking average from Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, and now leads Republican John McCain among registered voters by a 48% to 42% margin."

The above reflects the bounce from Michelle and Hillary's speeches but not Bill's. It's time for the Repukes to nominate Cheney as the vp. That way if the geezer croaks then finally the GOP is upfront about who they would have call the shots for the next four years...AGAIN: Cheney.

The only reason McCain's failed campaign regained traction and got him nominated was because he was supposedly the most independent of the repukes. It certainly is not that getting yourself shot down while bombing innocent civilians in an undeclared war makes you the most qualified Repuke for president.

Fact is the same old same old, as during Bush's terms, will be misdirecting the US if the Repukes win. After Bush-Rove torpedoed his candidacy with vicious false rumors of him fathering a black child, the geezer drank the kool-aid. Consequently, the geezer voted the Bush-Cheney party line 95% of the time. Showing the dismal state of the US education system, the public was hoodwinked into thinking he is some type of maverick that speaks or votes his own mind, senile as it may be as evidence by his failure to remember how many houses he owns (7).

McCain's candidacy is a type of false-flag op in that he postures himself as a maverick when is 4 more years of Cheney's governance.

2:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Repukes," Quasimodo? My, my, aren't we frustrated!

I wouldn't worry to much for "bounces" right now. There is still over 2 months before the election, which is an eternity in political terms. Lots of stuff can happen then.

Besides, 1980 Carter, 1984 Mondale, 1988 Dukakis, 1992 Bush, and 2000 Gore had 2 digit "bounces" after their respective conventions. Didn't help those losers much.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:wcZtBqT5UNcJ:blogs.abcnews.com/thenumbers/2008/08/the-convention.html+survey+research+past+convention+bounces&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

By the way, who is more senile? One who can't remember how many homes he owns (oh, the horror!) or a much younger and supposedly fit person who introduces his vice president as the next president of the US? Funny.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/23/biden.democrat.vp.candidate/index.html

;-)

The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina

2:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Grindio, why don't you take a 3 month surfing vacation. You are not helping the cause buddy ;)

3:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina"

Why are right wing, corporatist American forum activists taking such an interest in Bolivia?

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION FOR ME?

3:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"There are certain rights that cannot be trampled upon...
That's the danger Cuchi Cuchi worshipper is engaging in: just as Chavez,...Hitler was elected democratically, by the way.

Bottoms up!"

Little Crooked,

Your heroes, Costas and Hitler are very similar. Ruben sounds like he has read Adolf's take over plan but fortunately for Bolivia,his plans are doomed to failure.

Crooked, what are your plans? Prowling the Dctr's forum and planting hate is no way for a man to live.


Franco

1:40 AM  
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2:37 AM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

'The Chapare was the caldron of violence out of which Evo was born,” said Jim Shultz, a political analyst in Cochabamba. “If there had not been a U.S. war on drugs, there would not have been a President Evo.” '

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/29/world/americas/29bolivia.html?pagewanted=2

3:55 AM  
Blogger Norman said...

Good article.

9:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Election history has been made in the US!

Either the oldest candidate will be elected as president and a woman as vicepresident, or an African-American and a man with bad hair plugs.

;-)

The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina

1:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Touche Mr. McCain!

Jim, you should probably head back to the US asap. It seems your party desperately needs a good political strategist.. ;)

2:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was pondering what would have happened in 1988 if Pat Robertson would have succeeded in becoming the Republican presidential nominee and then, of course, become the president of the United States.

What if he had succeeded in convincing MOST Christians, and even nominal Christians, that he was 'the one' simply because of his religion. What if people would have followed Mr Robertson blindly, like sheep following a shepherd, doing exactly what he said and voting exactly how he wanted them to. What if the people didn't use their brains at all to decide the issues logically, rather they followed the man simply because he "represented" them; he was "one of them".

What if they didn't care whether he broke laws, alienated people, was arrogant and hypocritical and even threatened the 'democracy' that he used to (supposedly) support. What if he quelled with violence the typical form of protest that he himself used and touted for years. What if there were deaths caused directly or indirectly from his leadership yet people looked the other direction. What if they even gave him a 67% confidence vote. Don't think, just put an X in the box marked 'Si'.

Would it be right? Would it be democracy? Would we care?

2:10 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

Yep, McCain's choice is a Republican: "...she is currently herself under investigation by state lawmakers over the dismissal of a state public safety commissioner. She is alleged to have sacked him because he did not dismiss a state trooper involved in a contentious divorce and child custody battle from her younger sister."

Hmmm, regarding competence as to foreign policy and ability to be commander in chief: "she served on the council of Wasilla City Council, a town [population 7,738] outside Anchorage, and was its mayor from 1996 to 2002."

If Repukes steal another election from wimpy Demos (by hacking Dieybold's computers or whatever) and then the geezer croaks, her credentials are: "University of Idaho in 1987, having studied journalism and political science and occasional appearances as a television sports broadcaster". Apparently she gives good teleprompter as well as looks good in a bikini (to girl hungry-Alaskan men) which resulted in an Alaskan beauty contest win.

Compared to Obama: Harvard Law School with honors including editor of the Law Review, Illinois senator and US senator.

Yep, Cheney will still be running the show if the Repukes win.

Which is not a bad thing since four more years will be the death knell of US imperialism and the Republican party. Perhaps, it gives rise to real change by way of a third party not beholden to corporate interests like BOTH Repukes and Demos.

If the Repukes stole another election and McCain got a second term, judging by the results of Bush's terms (about half of US willing move beyond race to accept a black as president on the merits and Repukes only able to win presidency by running as a "maverick") maybe even Evo could run for pres, if he were a US citizen.

There is a lot to be said for perpetuated societal harms. Those harms often reach a critical mass leading to a backlash that brings real change.

I'm just saying....

3:48 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

"I was pondering what would have happened in 1988 if Pat Robertson would have succeeded in becoming the Republican presidential nominee and then, of course, become the president of the United States."

If he got away with two terms like Bush, there'd probably be such a backlash because of the hypocrisy and evil disguised as being done under color of Christian law that Christianity would be outlawed. It would become an underground, faith based social movement like in its early years when they didn't dare show crosses but made the the sign of the fish as their code signifier. Probably the best thing that could happen for Christianity since it would divide the wheat from the chaff.

3:52 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

This post has been removed by the author.

4:12 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

Grindio you never cease to amaze. she is currently herself under investigation by state lawmakers over the dismissal of a state public safety commissioner.

There are probably about 100 reasons I can think of that this could be a disastrous choice for McCain, but you lead off with that?!? Ethics is her strong suit. She's cleaned house in Alaska getting corrupt Republicans tossed out but the bucketload. One of her first moves as governor was to cut her own salary and reduce taxes 60%. She turned down contracts that would have personally benefitted her and her family. You should be singing her praises. Of course she does have popular appeal with an 80% approval rate (down form 90%). She should be a populist poster child!

4:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

EG wrote: "If he got away with two terms like Bush, there'd probably be such a backlash because of the hypocrisy and evil disguised as being done under color of Christian law that Christianity would be outlawed. It would become an underground, faith based social movement like in its early years when they didn't dare show crosses but made the the sign of the fish as their code signifier. Probably the best thing that could happen for Christianity since it would divide the wheat from the chaff."

Paraphrase since he obviously doesn't get the analogy:

If he got away with two terms like GONI, there'd probably be such a backlash because of the hypocrisy and evil disguised as being done under color of NATIVE AMERICAN law that 'INDIANS' would be outlawed. It would become an underground, faith based social movement like in its early years when they didn't dare show crosses but made the the sign of the fish as their code signifier. Probably the best thing that could happen for THE NATIVE AMERICAN POPULATION since it would divide the wheat from the chaff.

As Bill Nye would say: "Consider the following..."

4:53 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

This post has been removed by the author.

5:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From National Review:
Cold Water on Palin
[Ramesh Ponnuru]

Both the pros and the cons are pretty obvious. I’m going to focus on the cons, mostly because conservatives right now seem to be paying them less attention.

The pros: She’s a pro-life conservative reformer from outside Washington, and a woman. The pick signals a boldness and willingness to mix things up that the McCain campaign, like Republicans generally, need.

The cons:

Inexperience. Palin has been governor for about two minutes. Thanks to McCain’s decision, Palin could be commander-in-chief next year. That may strike people as a reckless choice; it strikes me that way. And McCain's age raised the stakes on this issue.


As a political matter, it undercuts the case against Obama. Conservatives are pointing out that it is tricky for the Obama campaign to raise the issue of her inexperience given his own, and note that the presidency matters more than the vice-presidency. But that gets things backward. To the extent the experience, qualifications, and national-security arguments are taken off the table, Obama wins.

And it’s not just foreign policy. Palin has no experience dealing with national domestic issues, either. (On the other hand, as Kate O’Beirne just told me, we know that Palin will be ready for that 3 a.m. phone call: She’ll already be up with her baby.)

Tokenism. Can anyone say with a straight face that Palin would have gotten picked if she were a man?

Compatibility. It doesn’t seem as though McCain knows Palin well. Do we have much reason to think they would work well together?

Debates. Maybe, as Jonah said the other day, Biden will look like a bully going up against her—and maybe she’ll shine. But I can think of a lot of other picks who would have been lower-risk.

I am not even sure that the pick will have quite the galvanizing effect on conservatives that it seems to be having now as it sinks in. The concerns I’ve mentioned here—about her readiness and her credentials—are the kind of thing that many conservative voters take seriously.

Now, as I said, there are pros too. Maybe Palin will be a terrific candidate and vice president. But let’s not underestimate the potential downside.

5:24 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

The video link above regarding the "ethics" and abuse of power by palin has been retitled as:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKNJ6bfBfIk

5:30 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

From the Washington Monthly:
PALIN AND THE BRIDGE TO NOWHERE.... John McCain's introduction of Sarah Palin as his running mate this afternoon was an interesting sight. If you watch the video carefully, and I hope you do, notice that in order to tell the audience his running mate's name, he had to carefully read it from a script. That's really not a good sign.

Palin's speech was rather routine, but there was a paragraph that stood out for me:

"...I championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. In fact, I told Congress -- I told Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks,' on that bridge to nowhere. If our state wanted a bridge, I said we'd build it ourselves."

The McCain campaign has been flagging this pretty aggressively this afternoon. It's a shame, then, that Palin wasn't exactly telling the truth. As TNR's Brad Plumer explained, Palin actually supported the funding for the much-derided bridge project.

That's not a good start for her very first public appearance as the Republicans' VP candidate.

I'd add, by the way, that her reference to earmark spending is itself problematic. For all of McCain's alleged disgust for pork, Palin's Alaska receives more earmarks than any other state.

As for the rest of the event, I had a similar reaction to Jonathan Chait: "It sort of seemed like one of those regular person testimonials where somebody gets up and talks about their family and their blue-collar job -- except then she says that she's on the ticket. Maybe it will help McCain connect with blue-collar voters. Maybe she'll come off as someone you can't possibly imagine as president. I don't know. It's really different."

5:40 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

Anon 4:53PM, "consider this":

No wonder you hide as another anon. You're so dumb, you don't even realize I turned your pre-paraphrase anti-Evo argument. Dolt!

(Insert sound of palm striking forehead accompanied by Homer Simpson exclaiming: "Dohhh!")

6:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Grindio, you sound like my chihuahua (not that I want to insult my vivacious little friend)

7:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And I bet he looks like one too...

7:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a Bill Nye fan I would like you to consider the following.

Intelligent people debate without being rude and obnoxious. It does no good to berate people except to (supposedly) build yourself up. It's truly a sign of an insecure person.

Rantings and name calling only demonstrate lunacy; as shown in the lives of a couple South American countries leaders.

8:06 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

To: Anon 7:19, who is so slow-witted it took him 2 minutes to complete his pathetic putdown as Anon 7:21

If you do not like the sound made by your chihuahua, try letting it out of your purse when you cross-dress and imitate Paris Hilton with her chihuahua.

Real men have dogs like my pedigree puppy, a present from a leader of my local business community.

To Bill Nye-Boy,
Thanks for attempting to defend me from the anon above's attacks but no thanks, you hypocrite. Unlike you, I decline to pretend I live in an imaginary land occupied by you, Barack OBambi and others who become flustered in adversarial debate. Politics is not for sissies. Submit your dated views to Don, Don's hero Rush and McCain's attack dogs. Let's see how persuasive they find your wishes.

However, I commend you on attempting to come to terms with your acknowledged "sign of an insecure person" as evidenced by your failed attempt to "berate people" when you pathetically tried to berate me. Now be sure and take your meds.

8:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Excuse me? I've berated you?

You've proved my point with your post of 8:59.

9:03 PM  
Blogger El Grindio said...

About my disregard and turn of his badly-written analogy berating Evo, Bill Nye-Boy wrote:
"Paraphrase since he obviously doesn't get the analogy"

then wrote:
"Excuse me? I've berated you?

Turn his prior post against him:
"It does no good to berate people except to (supposedly) build yourself up. It's truly a sign of an insecure person."

Bill Nye-Boy is a hypocrite who is a walking argument for the case affirming Social Darwinism as a philosophy.

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9:50 PM  
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4:22 AM  
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4:50 AM  

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