Was there an Assassination Conspiracy Against Evo Morales?
On Thursday afternoon in Santa Cruz three men were killed in a shootout with Bolivian police. According to the Bolivian government the men were part of a broad conspiracy to kill President Evo Morales and Vice-President Alvaro Garcia Linera. The shootout took place in a hotel in Santa Cruz, the city that is at the center of anti-Morales political sentiment.What really happened, who was behind it, and what it means is subject still at this point to as much speculation as it is fact. I have no information other than what has been reported widely in both the Bolivian and foreign media. Here are a few things we do know.
Raid Ordered by Morales Based on Bolivian Intelligence
The raid Thursday was ordered directly by Morales, based on Bolivian intelligence reports of a conspiracy against him.
"Yesterday I gave instructions to the vice president to move to arrest these mercenaries and this morning I was informed of a half-hour shootout at a hotel in the city of Santa Cruz," Morales said. Two additional people were also arrested. Vice President Garcia Linera also said that the men were carrying guns and grenades and attacked police the police.
Reuters reported the VP also saying that police found documents "about preparations for an assassination, an attempt on the lives of the president and the vice president" and confiscated a large cache of weapons with the men in Santa Cruz.
Bolivian government officials have also said that the “terrorist cell” had plans to blow-up a naval boat with Morales aboard recently on Lake Titicaca, had been behind the dynamite attack last week at the Santa Cruz home of Bolivia’s Catholic Cardinal, and also had plans to kill, among others, Santa Cruz Governor Ruben Costas, a fierce Morales critic.
The Dead Accused “Terrorists” Included Foreign Citizens
The nationalities of the three men killed remain unsettled in most news reports. Los Tiempos and others have identified them as Michael Martin Dwyer of Ireland, Magyarosi Arpad of Hungary, and a Bolivian, Eduardo Rozsa Flores. Rozsa Flores, a self-identified Muslim had a Blog here that included links to a variety of sites, ranging from pro-Palestinian groups, to Santa Cruz opponents of Morales, the IMDB movie database.
A number of press reports have identified the three men as “foreign mercenaries” who also were involved in the war in the Balkans. But it is unclear what those reports are based on at this point.
Morales Opponents Dismiss Possible Conspiracy
Morales opponents were quick to dismiss charges of any conspiracy against the President. Santa Cruz Governor Ruben Costas, who had been named by Bolivian officials as one of the potential targets of the conspiracy, quickly denied the government’s claims. He called the raid where the three men were killed, a “cheaply staged” show.
The President of the Santa Cruz delegation to the national Congress, Oscar Urenda, suggested that the episode was deliberately timed to coincide with Morales’ attendance at the summit of American Presidents in Trinidad, at which U.S. President Barack Obama was also in attendance.
None of the opposition leaders who questioned the conspiracy offered any specific evidence to back-up their suspicions.
What seems certain at this point is that a group of men with a large supply of weapons was operating with a clear violent intent, and there are certainly pockets of hatred against Morales deep enough to wish him dead. There is however no clear evidence, at this point and to my knowledge, that the established political organizations opposed to Morales, in Santa Cruz in particular, have any direct connection to these events.
The fact is at this point, that we don’t yet know what all the facts are. In the days that come there will be a myriad of rumors and charges from all sides. Some will be true and some will be false. We will do out best here to wade through all of them and report what we think is solid enough to report. In the meantime we would encourage our readers to rely on the reporting of solid news organizations and analysts, including those with better access that we have to original sources such as the police and others making the official investigations.
posted by The Democracy Center at 10:26 PM
The Democracy Center, based in Cochabamba Bolivia and San Francisco California, works globally to advance human rights through a combination of investigation and reporting, training citizens in the art of public advocacy, and organizing international citizen campaigns. If you like the Blog, consider becoming a subscriber to The Democracy Center's free e-newsletter by sending us an email at 
192 Comments:
A MUST READ AN ARTICLE FROM 1992 SEE THE SIMILARITIES
"Germany's Secret Balkan's Plan" SEARCHLIGHT July 1992 - London
A BBC television documentary shown in May depicted a few days in the lives of a motley crew of 100 pound a month British mecenaries, many of them ex-British army, who are helping the break away Croatian Tudjman regime as part of an international brigade.
the programe, titled "The Dogs of War" and shown in the BBC's Inside Story series, put a part of the detritus of British Society under the spotlight. Carl, a military explosives expert from Merryside, who went to Croatia for something to do and had served as a mecenary in Sri Lanka, the Sudan, Surinam and a couple of places "too sensitive to mention". Dave, seemingly from Manchester, who wanted to experience the joys of "killing without compassion, like the Yorkshire Ripper. Roy, the kid with the inane grin whose mother thought he was "working at Euro Disney"; and the Welshman known as "Frenchie", now hospitalized after shooting himself in the foot with his own machine gun.
The only onw with any redeeming features was Kit, an ex-paratrooper and French Legionnaire from the northeast, who freely describes himself as a "vagabond" and found life in Croatia preferable to the one in prison that he faces if he returns to Britain.
Kit, his personal life obviously as big a shambles as he describes his woeking colleages, had no illusions about the fact that he was in the company of cut throats whose main lust was to spill blood. "these sods are just as bad as the other side" he concided in a candid moment.
The programme was worthwhile as a series of character scetches focussing on the socially and it appears mentally disoriented flotsam and jetsam of Britain's failing economy.
However, it was important in other ways.
MURDER AND DECEPTION
What was crucial was that it gave an insight into the way in which the gangs of freelance marauders, enlisted by the Croatians to plunge Yugoslavia into bloody civil war, go about their business.
The British company, about 30 strong, was based in the town of Osijek, which was been the flashpoint for heavy fighting. One of its functions, the programme demonstrated, had been to provoke breaks in the cease fires arranged between the two sides in the conflict, in an attempt to throw the blame for continued shelling and violence on the overwhelmingly Serbian Yugoslav Federal Army.
These provocations bear the stamp of careful and systematic planning. The documentary proved this beyond doubt with footage showing a team of British and French mercenaries going out to lay explosives charges.
Radio news reports the next morning then said that "the shelling of Osijek was intense" and was "the worst violation of the cease fire since the current truce went into force."
The reality, explained the programmes commentary, was something different. The mercenaries had, in fact been in action laying explosives "to decieve the European Community observers who would assume it was the Serbs".
The British mercenaries are teh kind of people for whom fitting into normal social surroundings is anathema and for whom the mere thought of killing without feeling is attractive. They are the type of men who flocked into Hitler's Waffen-SS legions.
And like their predecessors they are being used as willing pawns in a game that is being played for staked much higher than they can begin to understand.
EDUARDO FLORES-FIXER FOR MURDE
handing out the orders to the British mercenaries in Osijek is a sinister young Spanish gentleman by the name of Eduardo Flores, a man whose name crops up with ever increasing frequency in investigations of the deaths of British photographer Paul Jenks and Swiss reporter Christian Wurtenberg in January ... around the time the BBC team filmed the "Dogs of War".
10:03 PM
Anonymous said...
The Hungarian far-right in Bolivia--Eduardo Rózsa-Flores
It didn't quite work out. The Bolivian police, under not entirely clear circumstances, killed three foreign "terrorists" and arrested two. The group is accused of plotting to assassinate Bolivian president Evo Morales. The Bolivian president is convinced that Washington is behind the assassination attempt, but this is highly unlikely given the cast the characters. Unfortunately, most of the news accounts that I read shed little light on the would-be assassins. What, they asked, was the common bond among the five men (names often misspelled) involved in the plot? Perhaps the Balkan wars where at least two of the five fought on Croatia's side against Serbia. My feeling is that Croatia and the Balkan wars have mighty little to do with this case.
The leader of the group, now dead, was Eduardo Rózsa-Flores. He was born in Bolivia but spent his teens and most of his adult life in Hungary. We can find ample information about him and his family on his blog "Sic Semper Tyrannus" (http://eduardorozsaflores.blogspot.com/), roughly translated as "Death to the Tyrant." His father, György Rózsa, was a painter and university professor who left Hungary in 1948 and married Nelly Flores Arias, a Spanish high school teacher. The couple settled in Bolivia, where Eduardo was born in 1960. In 1973 they moved to Chile, but the family left after Pinochet's military coup. For a couple of years they lived in Sweden as political refugees. In 1975 the Rózsa-Flores family moved to Hungary, where Eduardo attended a Budapest high school. He then spent three years at the country's military academy but left without graduating. Two years later he enrolled at ELTE, the Budapest university, from which he subsequently received an M.A. He was the last KISZ (Communist Youth Organization) secretary of ELTE. He later claimed that the only reason he took the job was to show that he could win the post against the wishes of people like Ferenc Gyurcsány. (I suspect that this is revisionist history.) After university he dabbled in journalism, taking advantage of his fluency in Spanish. For example, he wrote articles for La Vanguardia, a Spanish daily. He also supplied news to the BBC's Spanish language radio. He first reported from Croatia as a journalist but later volunteered to serve in the Croatian army. He fought in the battles of Osijek and Vukovár. The Croats appreciated his services and bestowed citizenship on him. President Franjo Tudjman promoted him to the military rank of major. A year later he became a colonel. He was wounded at least three times in different battles. In 1994 he returned to Hungary and published seven volumes of poetry. I didn't manage to find the seven volumes of poetry, but I did find five other books dealing mostly with the Croatian-Serbian war. During his stay in Croatia his name was associated with shady deals involving weapons and drug sales. According to rumors two journalists, one from Switzerland and another from Great Britain, who were investigating these transactions disappeared into thin air. In 2002 Ibolya Fekete made a documentary of his life, "Chico," that won first place in the documentary category at the Thirty-third Hungarian Film Festival. Next Tuesday MTV will air another documentary that is apparently the last testament of Rózsa-Flores. It was made in September before he embarked on his journey to Bolivia. One has to wonder how truthful these recollections are. Here, by the way, is a recent
picture of Rózsa-Flores.
10:04 PM
Anonymous said...
google
1)The Hungarian far-right in Bolivia--Eduardo Rózsa-Flores.
2)"Germany's Secret Balkan's Plan" SEARCHLIGHT July 1992 - London
to finish reading the whole article
It would seem Mr Rosza was a very nefarious individual plucked right out of some hollywood writers script.
I hope we eventually find out what happened. If him and his band of accomplices were truly planning on harming both Evo and Costas then it would be a very unexpected turn of the plot. Their whole goal would have been to destabilize the country.
To what end? with Evo and Costas out of the picture, who would fill the void. Who would Rosza and his band want to fill the void? or was he looking for total anarchic chaos.
The plot thickens, let's see what the detainees have to say. I'm sure they're receiving an interrogation most gitmo prisoners would cringe at.
Evo has completely botched and fumbled this once again. Can't he or that idiot Linares do anything right. It is evident from eye witness accounts, photographs, and all other evidence that this was a triple murder by Evos delta force and not a 30mn gun battle.
I am sure Rosza was up to no good and truly was planning some destabilizing actions in Bolivia. Evo in his infinite wisdom, instead of apprehending them beating the living sh*t out of them and getting all necessary intel from them instead chose to ruin everything by not only murdering them but by lying about the circumstances and botching the whole damn thing. IDIOT!!!!!!
Rosza wrote his last will and testament before coming to Bolivia and his last interview, where it's said he'll explain why he came to Bolivia, will air on Hungarian television later this week. Guy is a real character. Sounds like he knew his time was up. His former editor (a real extreme right wing nut) claims he was training folks in the jungle. What the hell was this Rosza guy doing?
The oddball in all this is the Irish kid. He was only 24, and from everything I've learned was the odd man out here. No military service, just finished college, good family, non political, pics of him in military gear and guns are from prosoft(euro paintball), well loved and liked by anyone and everyone he met, not a loner or antisocial, had everything going for him. His profile does not match the other older idealogues and ex war combatants. Sounds like the poor kid got caught up with Rosza and didn't really understand the gravity of what he was getting himself into. I feel for his family and friends.
Another oddball in this story is the Hungarian kid Arpad Magyarosi, the one with the dark curls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOv8P9WUli8&feature=related
Is this a ferocious terrorist? RIP
^^^
I agree, looks more like a hippie kid with no future but not a hardened terrorist. That being said, he was part of a group (Szekely Legio) which is known both in Hungary and Romania, and has been accused of being a front to a paramilitary organization that trained members to establish an autonomus ethnic hungarian region inside of Romania.
He roamed around aimlessly switching constantly from schools and universities never able to finish anything he started. He was a social misfit.
Contrast that with the Irish kid who had a large group of normal well adjusted friends, a great family and had just completed uni. You'll see he is different than Arpad or the others. Rosza knew his actions and plans (whatever they were)were going to get him killed, and he got what he expected to get. I doubt the Irish kid really expected this ending though.
Two oddball guys? What the hell were doing at Rozsa side?
Who knows, they were all facebook firends though. The Irish kids family and friends say he went to Bolivia for employment (security related). Could this all be a case of social networking gone completely wrong, and he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and with the wrong people.
Very odd that a hardened war veteran like Rosza, who has been accused of executing a journalist, and his fellow Balkans war vet were hanging out with a kid like Dwyer.
Arpad Magyarosy was a good man and no more a social misfit than most of the Hungarian young men in today's Transylvania (Romania), they all dream about their region's autonomy. Due to this, Arpad's days were numbered anyway but who would have thought that it will happen in... Bolivia?
Did you know Arpad? what the hell was he doing in Bolivia with a guy like Rosza? There is much skulduggery afoot here. Seems to me that these young guys got manipulated into joining something a lot more serious than they imagined by Rosza and the other Balkans war vet.
Rosza was obviously the ringleader here, wouldn't it have been more prudent for Morales to keep him alive and instead throw him a hole for the remainder of his days instead of having him eliminated on site.
Rozsa was registered at the hotel with another name. Jose Hurtado Flores instead of Eduardo Rózsa Flores. This proove that he was plotting something anyway.
Their presence in Bolivia could be drug related of course. What I find intriguing are some of the hotel manager's revelations, that the five were in the hotel at the time of the attack on the Cardinal and that someone hacked into his cctv system and erased the groups arrival filmed on Tuesday evening. I would imagine that Evo heard of their presence, knew they were up to no good and decided to use the situation to his own ends, taking them out and then accusing them of an assassination plot. But a weird oversight on his part in not shutting the hotel owner up.
I lived in Bolivia for 12 years but left in 2006, just couldn't take it since Evo took power by inciting racism, I don't dispute the complaints of how they were abused as a country in the past but the level of resentment is just scary now.
I knew Arpad and he was a good guy...always happy, singing, playing guitar and writing poetry. He had lots of friends.
These guys were executed in bed. Morales' men asked the security cameras be turned off when they enter. WHY? The local police were not involved at all. WHY? There were no bullet holes anywhere and noone was injured other than the 3 dead. WHY? Could they not have just thrown some tear gas in and arrest them? The alleged evidence was found in a 'nearby location' ...how convenient. This whole thing smells of BS to me ... i just hope we find out what really happened from Elod Toaso---who has not been allowed to contact his family or speak to the media...an infringement of human rights I think... but what does that really mean in Bolivia? when they slaughter innocent people on a whim.
I think the problem is different. Morales ordered the assault on the advice of his security experts. Morales does not have to worry about the procedure. The police imagine Rozsa is extremely hazardous and therefore are afraid and they opened fire indiscriminately and that is the result.
There is no acceptable explanation for the brutality that took place. What happened to questioning and interrogation?...they could have tasered them for God's sake, they were in their beds sleeping. There would have been a million different ways to handle this. These men were obviously a thorn in the Bolivian president's side and were executed.
Justice must be done for these boys.
They don't have tasers.. A thorn?? Very inlikely.
Do you know what thorn even means? ALso, they could have thrown in some tear gas, mustard gas. Don't tell me they don't have that either. How hard is it to arrest people sleeping in their underwear.... c'mon!
Hmmm. Taser? When confronting war-veteran terrorists (armed with Uzis, C4 explosives and an arms cache nearby) use a taser gun.
Funny but US swat teams nor Homeland Security agents employ that tactic. I guess they didn't get that memo.
*Do you know what thorn even means?*
Oh yes, but if you are experiencing some difficulties to understand the meaning:
1. a sharp pointed woody projection from a stem or leaf
2. any of various trees or shrubs having thorns, esp. the hawthorn
3. a thorn in one's side or flesh a source of irritation
☺
I see you're familiar with wikipedia :)
☺ ☺ ☺
Thorn is a metaphore for those that are unfamiliar.
EL GRINDIO: These men were not armed, you saw the pictures, neither of them had a gun in their hand or near them and reports say that all the weapons and supporting documentation was found at an apartment supposedly rented out by these men NEARBY----NOT THE HOTEL....how convenient. You seem to be very aware of US swat tactics...Im a US citizen and my brother is an officer, trust me...I am more familiar.
^^^
You have no clue what happened, neither do I, because neither you or I were present.
Actually there were weapons confiscated AT THE HOTEL, including a miniature uzi and 9mm's with silencer. Were they planted? Maybe, but like I said neither you nor I know what happened. We weren't there.
What we do know is that Rozsa is a former Balkans war veteran who is accused of murder. We know he wrote his last will and testament before coming to Bolivia, and we know his friend and editor he worked for said Rozsa was going to fight in Bolivia. He had not been in Bolivia in ten years.
I'm no fan of that deplorable Morales or his gang but Mr Rozsa was not in Bolivia to birdwatch or vacation. He was looking for trouble and apparently he found it.
Very true, all you or I know is from the media...much of which is probably exaggerated to one side or another.
I did not know Rozsa but he was a war HERO not a murderer. If he were a murderer he would have been imprisoned. Furthermore, the reporter that he gave his last interview will be releasing it on Tuesday to the Hungarian television and has not given any information on it so pls dont speculate why he was there unless you know the facts (you know...take your own advice).
I am not ruling out the fact that he perhaps wanted to start a revolution or something of that sort, speculation, again...but none of that warrants the type of brutal death they were given.
This should not be swept under the rug.
Oh another funny fact, according to bolivian authorities the two men in custody confessed to the two bombings that they were accused of....very interesting. These men have not been able to talk to anyone, get visits or talk to the media ever since they were taken into cusody. Clearly a human rights infringement...and they are unable to speak for themselves.
^^^
Someones war hero is another persons murderer. Just ask the Serbs and see if they think he's such a great guy, or the family of the journalist who was killed allegedly by Rozsas orders. That family certainly thinks he's a murderer.
As far as speculating why he was there, it is not speculation but a direct quote from one of his closest friends and editor he worked for in Hungary.
I agree murder is not the answer, however, any country you go to will execute those that have arrived with a clear purpose to destabilize its democratically elected government.
Rozsa was no saint, but I agree that he should not have been killed. He should have been arrested and tried in a court of law.
If he were a murderer he would have been imprisoned.. Anon 7:39 PM
I don't see Goni in jail!
To be able to give a press conference is a "human right"? When I debated the UDHR in college, I don't remember its inclusion within the textual or operational definitions of "human rights". And you have always advocated this position throughout the time torture was employed per Bush-Cheney directions?
Maybe now our "Croat" friend will change his sign off to:
The Croats are wannabe Lee Harvey Oswalds
Santa Cruz is the wannabe Dallas
this is my theory
Rosza= THE RING LEADER. WITH OBSESIVE BEHAVIOR AND VERY deciplened
Arpad Magyarosi= EXPERT IN COMPUTER,HIREd TO HELP Rosza WITH HIS BLOGS
Irish Kids = WAS A BLIND SOLDIER, HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GETTING INTO UNTIL THE PLOT WOULD BE FINISHED THE SAME AS, Lee Harvey Oswald who was accused of assassinating President John F. Kennedy,
these 3 people were sleeping in the same room, when the police entered and shot them, the gun shots woke the other two, maybe they were sleeping in other room and had a gun combat with the police.
The other 2 people = were the Executors and fulltime soldiers.
sorry for my Inglish not my first lenguage
i said " THE SAME AS, Lee Harvey Oswald who was accused of assassinating President John F. Kennedy,''
I think Oswald DIDN'T shot JFK' BUT HE WAS USE AS A ESCAPE
La Marabunta says: Do unto Costas as you did with Terrazas (check with both for the best time for them to remain unharmed), ensure their lip-serving as the proverbial expiatory victims of a textbook de-stabilization plan, include the Santa Crook's fair, with say, an overnight explosion, for massive insurance & tax relief due to material losses: Pandemonium! Robe-tearing, calls for International intervention, UN peace forces, return of Kuerpo de Spay (while we're at it), and crookjenista upheaval to ensue, only then kidnap the Indian, dope him up, put him on the telly, and Bingo. This sums up your crash course on 'merkan d'mockcrassy.
El Grindio: Freedom of speech is a human right... also to make one phonecall to you family I think is the protocol everywhere.
Jim's tone in his article is skeptical about wild conspiracy theories and prefers to give time for the facts to emerge. That's good. You still have hope.
Unfortunately, the monopolizers of the facts in Bolivia are perpetual liars such as the Whiner in Chief Cuchi Cuchi worshipper and that sorta whitey failed guerrilla dude who lectures aymaras who is a traitor to his race or not, Garcia Linera. With a speed that would make Sherlock Holmes and Nancy Drew proud, these two dazzling detectives and insightful inspectors assure they have already solved the case by blaming the coolest cats in the Collasuyo...the Croats.
As natural as is stinky methane to leave a cow's rear, Morales whined for the upteenth time (and for the upteenth time offered zero evidence) that he was targeted for assassination by the "Empire" and/or its proxies. The only thing being assassinated in all this fiasco is the correct usage of whatever grunts emanate from Morales' mouth. I mean, really! Why can't he get a Cuban tutor who can "alphabetize" him as the rest of the country supposedly has been? On second thought, better not. Get a nice Jesuit Spanish tutor. They're really good.
;-)
The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina
http://santacruznotebook.wordpress.com/2009/04/19/an-official-story-under-fire/
◄ Anonymous said... El Grindio: Freedom of speech is a human right... also to make one phonecall to you family I think is the protocol everywhere. ►
No if you are accused of terrorist activities.
◄ The Croats are Morales' Jews ►
If croats are Morales's jews, then they can take refuge in Crotia.
I'm an Irishman as some of you here may or may not know. This story is attracting a lot of attention in Ireland.
The Irish minister for State, Dick Roche, said that Michael Dwyer, the Irishman killed, had no criminal record, and was not known to the Irish police or intelligence services.
He graduated from a construction management course less than a year ago from a small Irish institute of technology.
From there he went to the United States on a security job, as in as a bouncer or night watchman. He went to Bolivia on a three month training course, which apparently including weapons training, and then took a job for this Flores character. That happened no more than a few months ago.
It's entirely possible that a regular young man from Ireland, with no record and a very well-adjusted background, met the wrong people and got himself involved in this business, but it is very strange.
It appears that there was no shoot-out, as according to the hotel manager, and we know the three were killed in their underwear, one while tied up.
I hope this Irish kid was guilty, because it would be terrible to think that he was murdered in cold blood for being friends with the wrong people.
9:21 AM No if you are accused of terrorist activities.
I tend to disagree. Everyone has a right to a lawyer and a phone call...and being accused is different than being guilty of it. No?
◄ I tend to disagree. Everyone has a right to a lawyer and a phone call...and being accused is different than being guilty of it. No? ►
Yes, but the security of the state and its citizens take precedence over those of the suspect. Bolivia is a country under-developed and lacks the means to ensure its security by having a unblemished behavior.
◄ I hope this Irish kid was guilty, because it would be terrible to think that he was murdered in cold blood for being friends with the wrong people. ►
What you say is absurd. Guilty or not guilty is still a tragedy. For the guy and his family.
This post has been removed by the author.
Me says: What you say is absurd. Guilty or not guilty is still a tragedy. For the guy and his family.
Sorry 'Me', I think you misunderstood my meaning here. I mean to say that I hope he was guilty in the sense that he wasn't innocently shot, as in he really was an assassin. That is not to say he deserved anything. Perhaps my turn of phrase was not the best.
If he was an assassin, it is a tragedy for his family. If not, then it is a terrible tragedy for both him and his family.
I believe the whole situation stinks, and with the information we have at the moment it appears to be a very nefarious business.
In order to become an assassin you are supposed to kill somebody, don't you? From what we know so far, these men were wannabes, is ever. President Morales' only chance to prove that he has not staged the slaughter for personal image polishing reasons is to reveal his sources of information. Who were those who have given him the tip? I think this is an important point in this story.
The two balkan war vets were no "wannabes", and Rozsa specifically has been accused of ordering the murder of a journalist looking into allegations that he was involved in gun smuggling in europe.
Dwyer (Irish) was working for an Irish security firm that sent him to Bolivia. Who hired him and for what purpose? Since when do innocent "tourists" or "filmmakers" like Rozsa need hired security from private Irish security firms that know absolutely F**K all about Bolivia or its politics. Dwyer had no clue what he was getting himself into, he was a part time bouncer who liked to play soldier on the weekends, but harmless beyond that. He had no business hanging around a grizzled war veteran like Rozsa who had extreme right wing political leanings and was in Bolivia for no good purpose.
I blame Dwyers employer, his personal gullibility, and the company he kept in Bolivia, it ultimately got him killed. I agree it is a tragedy and he should have been arrested and not killed. He should have never been in Bolivia to begin with. Rozsa on the other hand, I'm not very sympathetic about, he knew what he was getting into.
There was no plot to assesinate Evo Morales, it is riduculous to think that the alleged murderes will also plot to kill Costas the Prefect of Santa Cruz, Evo Morales wants to involucrate the opposition in this case, for "some" reason they new that Rosza was in Bolivia and kill him and his friends to have something to talk about at the Americas Summit.
I thought the guy had extreme left wing political leanings instead of right.
Well, my take on it is that nothing adds up and these guys were innocently executed. Won't it be interesting when Morales will face the people who really want him dead? I would really beef up security if I were him. I'm not sayin'...just sayin'
The two kids killed were innocent and gullible...thinking they were possibly fighting for human rights but never would magine what they've gotten themselves into. So sad
innocent people were killed and we still don't know why. (it's possible that the two youngest were in the wrong place in the wrong time..)
when will be justice? platonic question..
I don't think Rozsa or Tadic are very innocent. There is nothing innocent about wanting to overthrow a democratically elected government or recruiting and training paramilitary forces.
There is enough evidence to suggest that is exactly what Rozsa was up to. Read his blog, read what his employer and close friend in Hungary said about him going to Bolivia, read his shady past in gun smuggling, murder. Read up on his affiliations with right wing and racist groups from Ireland, to Romania, to Croatia and to Bolivia.
I don't like Socialism and I sure as hell don't like Evo, but Rozsa had only one purpose and it was to cause mayhem and violence in Bolivia. Innocent he is not.
Let me make it easy for you to read what Croats in Belgrade say:
"Croats in Bolivia face accusations of extremism
Belgrade - Croatian officials were assessing reports of Croats living in Bolivia being accused of being "extremists" and trying to break up Bolivia after a failed attempt to kill Bolivian President Evo Morales, Serbian media reported Monday. Last week, an elite Bolivian police squad killed three members of an alleged terrorist group suspected of planning attacks on Morales. One of those killed was a Hungarian nationalist who had fought as a mercenary for the Croats in the 1992-95 war in the then Yugoslavia.
Bolivians have since alleged that Croats living in Bolivia of trying to break up Bolivia in the same way they have broke up Yugoslavia in the 1990s, according to the Belgrade daily Blic.
"We are going to assess the situation in Bolivia and consider sending a diplomatic note. The Croatian government cannot be responsible for what its former fighters are doing now," Croatian Vice Premier Jadranka Kosor was quoted as saying in the report.
Blic reported that authorities in Bolivia had linked alleged terrorists to a rich Bolivian businessman of Croat descent who is advocating for the autonomy of rich provinces. The businessman, whose father is a Croat and mother is Montenegrin, allegedly organized the terrorists and brought in Montenegrin mercenaries, according to Blic.
Bolivian police in the raid on Thursday also arrested two suspects, including a Croatian veteran of the 1992-95 war."
For those who like links, below is photographic evidence:
1) Árpád Magyarosi (who was "trained in marksmanship and ability[ to detect mines") was a gunslinger;
2) Michael Martin Dwyer was a "soldier of fortune, a man obsessed with guns and assassins. According to accounts, he served as a mercenary in the Balkan wars"; and
3) how collectively one can conclude they "all seemed to be well versed in guerilla warfare."
http://esbalogh.typepad.com/hungarianspectrum/2009/04/hungarian-farright-in-bolivia.html
And there is always Flores' youtube videos of his sniper rifle marksmanship that combined with his hatred of Evo is evidence in and of itself that he had motive and means:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUdyjEyqG_Y&feature=channel_page
Belgrade is the capital of Serbia, not Croatia, Gridiota.
this guy is like Che 2.0....only with some bugs in the software. I wonder what the Will will tell us tomorrow or what's in the MTV segment and other movies.
Here a quick teaching of how delinquent groups are handled in Bolivia for all those foreign interested in this case. Let’s see if you all can understand the metaphor, I don’t mean you grindio, he is incapable of reasoning.
Bolivian car thieve bands are managed by the police, you get your car stolen, sometimes violently and at gun point, and the police cannot find it or the thieves, is impossible, is worthless to try. Then you get a phone call from someone inside our public jail with all the information you gave the police and offer your car back for a specific amount of money. If you accept, you pay, in jail, to some guy and he gives you the exact address you will find your vehicle, minus some items.
But just sometimes, the stealing of the car gets out of hand, and someone gets kill; in matter of days, never over a week; the same police that couldn’t catch the thieves you so well described happen to “discover” where the perpetrators were and after a gun battle all car thieves are death and the valiant police don’t even have a scratch to show off for their deeds.
We all know it, is not a secret, the thieves are executed because they “know” to much; the business and the money is to big and Bolivian citizens are to tired of being mugged to care less for those bastards; some might even wish they would have gone to the media to say their true but they were to busy trying saving their lives from their bosses.
Going back to Flores and his band, one only wanders how much they knew about Evo and his acolytes that it was more “convenient” for the regime to silence them. Bolivians, not counting the ones that are MAS fanatics, know these killings are just a cover up; the world will slowly discover it thanks to the Irish citizen executed in this ordeal. One can only hope it will happen before December.
El Grindio says:
Michael Martin Dwyer was a "soldier of fortune, a man obsessed with guns and assassins. According to accounts, he served as a mercenary in the Balkan wars"El Grindio, Michael Dwyer had not hit puberty by the time the Balkan Wars were over. It is impossible he served there as a mercenary, unless the 10 year old Michael somehow popped over from Galway, Ireland for a few rounds of terrorist activity.
How was he "A Soldier of Fortune"? It's less than a year since he graduated from Construction Management in a small Irish Institute of Technology. Since then he worked for a security company in the United States and only recently arrived in Bolivia. If he was a Soldier of Fortune, he became so in the last weeks.
As for being "obsessed with guns and assassins" this is based purely on his Facebook hobbies page, where he says he likes shooting.
If Morales truly wanted to "silence" them they would not have bothered to capture the other two, they would have just killed them. I sometimes agree with you Libre but I think you're off on this one.
The gunshot wounds to the chest at standing height indicate they were shot at close range while standing up and in the front. Not sleeping. The shock grenade probably woke them and when the deltas entered the room one of them made a move toward the entry man who in a split decision decided to not take any chances and took him down. Standard SWAT procedure, if they would have laid on their stomachs, turned their backs and arms in the air they wouldn't have been killed. This is the same reason the other two in the other room were not harmed and were arrested instead. They probably heard the gunfire and smartly showed absolutely no threat to the deltas, which is why they are still alive.
I agree that Morales' government made up the 30mn gunbattle scenario to score political points, but I also agree that Alfredo Rozsa was indeed planning to destabilize the country through terroristic actions.
PS - Grindio you're way off on Michael Dwyer, and so is that blog. That guy has no clue about Dwyer, he does seem to know quite a bit about the Transylvanians though. Dwyer had NO MILITARY TRAINING, never served in the Balkans, he was just 24 for petes sake. He was a part time bouncer who just graduated from college and was working for a private Irish security firm by the name of Integrated Risk Management Services, which allegedly are the ones that sent him to Bolivia in the first place. IRMS is run by former Irish army rangers and their company has provided security for Shell and different corporate executives. The picture of him on that blog is of him with fake airsoft guns on one of his weekend airsoft games (euro paintball). This guy wasn't ex military or had any training outside of him and his friends playing paintball on the weekends. Michaels facebook is filled with photos of him in Santa Cruz out at clubs, restaurants and bowling alleys having fun with the local ladies and looking and seemingly enjoying himself as any 24yr old would. He's not exactly Blackwater material. I would love to hear what his employer has to say about what happened and who hired and paid for him to be in Bolivia. Was it Rozsa? and if so why contract a foreign security firm and send a kid who knew nothing of the country or its political situation. So many questions.
it's very easy in these days to make a scenario with some pictures. I read all in the media, net, also see a documentary of 49 min with Flores. seems to me that it was interested is many, it was a thinker, ironic, sarcastic to. but when they question that he consideres himself as "Che", he said: " I love myaself, but I am not so selfish to consider myself Che."
do you really think if Dwyer or Magyarosi was planning something, they just put some pictures about them to left evidence?! the media doesn't wrote about the fingerprints on the guns.
I think this is a parrelel with the film Zeitgeist. did you see it?
in a comunist country is very easy for "special forces" , without human rights. thanks to Bolivia Libre for the detailed story. most of us can't even imagine how it works in some countries.
"so many questions"
One answer: "Follow the Marinkovich logia money"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC3MKF0R-sg&NR=1
and this at 2:42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTlrSYbCbHE
The last will of Eduardo Rózsa Flores will be revealed on April 21
Before Eduardo Rózsa Flores left for Bolivia, he had given a secrete interview to András Kepes, the only person, he has ever trusted. During the interview, not even the cameraman was present, only two of them. "He told me not to talk to anyone about this interview while there was a chance he could come back from Bolivia" said Kepes.
"From this interview, it will be crystal clear why Eduardo went to Bolivia. All the mosaics will fall into their places, when we learn the background information that all media sources interpreted differently" said Kepes.
András Kepes was in touch with Eduardo Rózsa Flores until he was killed. "He told me that he trusted only in me and that the interview was practically his last will" said Mr. Kepes.
"The Bolivian government has a version of the events, the opposition has another one, on April 21, we will learn Eduardo's version--why he went to Bolivia" said Mr. Kepes.
The Hungarian television will broadcast the interview on April 21, as part of the "Unusual Stories" series.
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2009/04/last-will-of-eduardo-rozsa-flores-will.html
http://www.hungarianambiance.com/2009/04/in-memoriam-eduardo-rozsa-flores-and.html
"Dont split your mentality
Without thinking twice
Your voice has got no reason
Now is the time to face your lies
Open your eyes, open your mind
Proud like a God dont pretend to be blind
Trapped in yourself, break out instead
Beat the machine that works in your head."
"Do you think that you are better
Really better than the rest
Realize theres a problem
I know that you can give your best"
if anobody has the film "Chico" send me a link pls. I am interested.
Can any of you explain the fact that Aprad was tied up and THEN shot? You can clearly see his hands under him in the hotel room. He's still tied up in the morgue pictures. What reasoning could they possibly have for this???? They were in different rooms...each shot...no bullet marks towards the door just by the dead bodies. Unbelievable. The truth will come out.
Archaeopteryx ... i thought i saw it on youtube.
Archaeopteryx thanks for pointing out the Human Rights....seems some people/countries are unfamiliar with it.
thanx, but I ment to dowload it free it is possible.
7:39, you're right, Magyarosi was with his face down, without help. Dwyer has a whole is his chest, it was a gonshut not very far. watch this video in the middel of the text;
http://www.kronika.ro/index.php?action=open&res=27684
they were shooted like dogs.
isn't it strange that no policeman was killed in a half-hour shootout??
this all happen in 21th century!! in what world are we living?!?
More has emerged on Dwyer's role. Appears he lied (to his own family) about being sent to Bolivia by the security firm:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0421/breaking30.htm
What are you talking about Archaeopteryx ? In Iraq there were over one million dead. Stop saying nonsense.
"In Iraq there were over one million dead." Right. Stop talking nonsense.
ok. 8:33
..Ramon Zurita, on night duty at the Hotel Las Americas told this:
" The police made Zurita and the night porter keep their hands spread out on the lobby desk, cut the phone and asked where was the rear exit, says Zurita.
“Having secured the area, they then asked where the Hungarians, Croats and Irishman were staying. They knew who they were looking for. They were always professional but they were clearly pumped-up with adrenaline.” "
also, another witness Maria Diez told:
“The Irishman was very well-behaved, always polite,” remembers Diez. “He had his own room but was very friendly with the others.
“They breakfasted together and in the evenings were around the pool together. We never saw them with anyone else and they never said what they were doing in Bolivia. But they were good guests, never drinking excessively or anything like that.”
Hotel Manager contradicts police
From La Razón newspaper (Bolivia)
1. Hernán Rosel, the hotel's Manager, says that all five members of the group were in their rooms before, during and after the attack on the Cardinal's residence.
2. He says that an inspection of the rooms by the hotel's own security staff found no indication whatsoever that any member of the group fired at the police. The only bullet holes were near the bodies.
3. He is adamant that their car, which police claim was used in the attack on the Cardinal's residence, never left the hotel.
Rosel stated that the five signed the hotel registry on Tuesday night. "Three of them arrived at 8.30p.m., and two more at 10.40 p.m. They said they were visiting Santa Cruz and decided to change hotel. The Receptionist told me that they were very polite."
...
The Special Forces group entered the hotel just after 4.00 a.m. They blew open the door of Room 458, where Eduardo Rozsa was staying. According to the hotel security's report, there were 10 bullet holes close to where his body lay. There wasn't a single bullet hole in the door or the corridor.
Room 457 had 3 bullet holes in the wall, near the bed, where Magyarosi Arpad died. In Room 456, where Michael Martin Dwyer died, there was a single bullet hole....
"In Iraq there were over one million dead." Right. Stop talking nonsense.It's not nonsense. We've had this discussion a few times on this blog.
There are several reputable studies that have arrived at this figure.
Opinion Research Business surveyLancet surveyFor starters.
You may disagree with these studies, but since the US Government did not keep civilian casualty figures, as required under International Law, these are the main statistical sources we have, as such it is perfectly reasonable to quote the 1 million statistic, even if we are not 100% of it's veracity.
Seems like everything is pointing in one direction....CONSPIRACY and POLITICAL CHESS
Fascinating thread. This reminds me of what this blog used to be like.
Not only I disagree, but much more knowledgeable people than you and I. The American Association of Public Opinion Research says [the Lancet survey]"...violates the standards of science, seriously undermines open public debate on critical issues, and undermines the credibility of all survey and public-opinion research."
http://chronicle.com/news/article/5923/public-opinion-researchers-censure-hopkins-scholar-over-findings-on-iraqi-deaths
Lancet would have been more credible if it would have paraphrased Austin Power's "1 billion, gagillion, fafillion, shabolubalu million illion yillion...yen"
Unfortunately there are too many civil casualties in the middle of a political game of chess.
Forget all terrorist conspiracy. Flores was invited to organize the defense of Santa Cruz when autonomy is declared:
http://www.mti.hu/cikk/374334/
use google tranlate.
In other words Rozsa wanted to redo his Croatian adventure . It was a serious act of subversion and what caused a civil war. It is therefore better that way. The Bolivian government did the right thing.
The Bolivian government did the 'right thing"? They burst into hotel rooms and murdered three people? With what evidence and right? Can you say Human Rights?
Can anyone tell us what evidence the government had against these five and what rights they had to murder them? Apparently the 'gun battle' was one sided.
I'm an expatriot living in Cochabamba and this makes me VERY concerned. Are soldiers going to break into my house in the night and shoot my two daughters in their bras and panties? Or will they rape them first?
This afternoon Evo announced that he will not allow an 'international' investigation. That is to say he will not allow the Hungarian and Irish governments to participate in the investigation of the murder of their citizens.
This is scary stuff people.
I am bolivian and know that bolivian government did the right thing.
"I'm an expatriot living in Cochabamba and this makes me VERY concerned."
Where come you from?
7:14:
You KNOW? Do you have the facts? Or do you blindly trust our government? Where did you get your information to be so sure? I need to read that. WHAT are the facts?
"I'm an expatriot living in Cochabamba and this makes me VERY concerned. Are soldiers going to break into my house in the night and shoot my two daughters in their bras and panties? Or will they rape them first?"
You do not speak with great respect for your daughters ..
7:20 PM
http://www.mti.hu/cikk/374334/
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2009/0421/1224245070117.html
7:23:
Like Ill understand that...? Translation please.
7:31 PM Try google.
Calling this "right thing" recalls from my memory a quotation from Ronald Reagan:
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
This story is a sad illustration of the above.
I just watched the last secret interview/will of Eduardo Rozsa Flores on Hungarian TV. He said he was called upon by the people of Santa Cruz to help with the fight for autonomy and organize a defense for the civilians if things get ugly.
http://www.hirado.hu/Hirek/2009/04/21/21/Exkluziv_felvetel_Nezze.aspx
Funny thing is....Morales says that Croatia, Ireland and Hungary have no right to do an investigation as to what happened. Hmmm....
7:21 PM He does not speak with great respect of his GOVERNMENT. I wonder why?
"This afternoon Evo announced that he will not allow an 'international' investigation. That is to say he will not allow the Hungarian and Irish governments to participate in the investigation of the murder of their citizens."
Wrong. Morales did not say that, an El Deber headline said that.
Later in the SAME article it says, "Morales dijo que "si es importante la presencia de la comunidad internacional, (entonces) bienvenida."
article at: http://www.eldeber.com.bo/2009/2009-04-21/vernotaahora.php?id=090421170636
And don't forget yesterday's El Deber, in which Evo said an international commission would investigate:
http://www.eldeber.com.bo/vernotaahora.php?id=090419013300
And this is from El Deber! Not exactly rooting for Evo.
Hopefully they will investigate and find out what happened because nothing makes sense. These guys should just have been arrested....Santa Cruz asked them to help in the fight for autonomy...unpaid and out of their good will. They shouldn't have had to die....not like that :(
Anon 8:58
Morales came out with a 180 today saying that if those countries wanted to send investigators, then they are signaling/admitting their culpability in the "assassination plots." He said they have no authority to call for an investigation.
"Evo se molesta y se cierra a la posibilidad de una investigación internacional"
http://www.eldeber.com.bo/2009/2009-04-21/vernotaahora.php?id=090421170636
7:33 PM
Reagan was a particularly stupid e immoral men. But if you do not like governments you can move to Somalia.
I'am proud that Bolivia's governement do the right thing !
Calling this "right thing" recalls from my memory a quotation from Ronald Reagan:
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
This story is a sad illustration of the above.I disagree. The nine most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the Republican party and I believe religiously in small government including stripping away regulation that will allow banks to pursue questionable practices that will precipitate the global financial meltdown. But within weeks of realising that a lack of government oversight was a key factor in the global financial disaster I'll still be spouting ideological nonsense about the reduced role of government. Facts have no impact on my beliefs, much like my opinions of Evolution. I'm also rolling back the influence of the Enlightenment that made America the country that was able to produce the culture that produced the Constitution."
Was that more than nine words? Oh well. That's what happens when you encounter somebody with a placard for a brain.
To all of the government fans:
Enjoy your government !
Until it kicking your door.
Bowsie,
thank you for the crisis explanation. You got it wrong, but I am not here to help you in this topic. What about the following:
Bolivian government massacred three people and lying about the reason.
I just wanted to be the one who posts comment #100. Woohoo!
;-)
The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina
◄ I just wanted to be the one who posts comment #100. Woohoo! ►
Lo que muestra la poca mierda que vales.
The government of Bolivia has killed three infamous terrorists and has very good reasons to be rid of garbage.
Branko, clearly you don't know what you're talking about and don't have your facts straight. They were accused of being terrorists. They had no criminal records especially the 2 young men. Do your research please and then blog. Thanks :D
Branko...be careful...you're next....these men were innocently massacred.
look, yesterday in the last video of E.Flores he said , that he was invited to organize the defense of Santa Cruz when
autonomy is declared.
the man who make the interview show emails sent bu Flores with pictures after he arrived. in the back were inscription
like: "stop violence" etc.
-his girlfriend said in summer 2007 he had a heart attack
- he do humaniatarian work in Indonesia, Sudan, Darfur, transported drugs, s, medical instruments
- 5 men know about his travel in Bolivia (at first he went to Brasil, Campo Grande, then passing the tropical forest in
Bolivia). this was the plan
-he think that Bolivia's secret army know about he, but hoped that they can't do anything (unefortunetly they did)
- how you expalin that those special forces don't have a search warrant?
-in the interview, people of Szurdokpuspoki (where he lived in Hungary) say that Flores was a helping man wherever it was
needed and he didn't do for the money. he helped different kind of people. for example, Flores has jewish on his blood, he
was Muslim and helped tha local Catholic Church at Easter with costumes, scenario.
- he had a pension from Croatians , that he never took , he said he will take that money when he had nothing to eat. :)
- he spoked 7 languages , just that he was a very complex caracter, man, that doesn't filled in any category, and in this
world if you're different, you're a jork.
"people are strange when you're a stranger, faces look ugly when you're alone"
- at the end of the interview said he's not affraid of death: " If I die home, it was written, and it will happen with me in
the right place."
- the regizor of the documentary spoke with Ibolya Fekete, the regizor of "Chico". she said that Flores know maybe is sitting
on a cloud laughing about the media , especially the international media, who makes intrigue about his case.
....here are some facts, I tried to translate the last video with him.
Bla bla bla bla.
Rózsas was a traitor and deserves his execution!
Clap clap clap clap ! ! !
I suppose you are not Croatian...because to them he is a HERO. If he was a criminal he would be jailed. It was him and 2 innocent people killed. You are very childish in your thoughts.
Archaeopteryx ...thanks for putting it into perspective. SOme people just don't get it.
I am Bolivian. I live in Bolivia. Croats live in Croatia. My ancestors are serbocroates
Well I guess you better watch your back because next thing you know YOUR cherished government will be breaking your door and shooting you down like a dog in your sleep ...
yes, and Flores was Bolivian too, he went home beacuse he realised far from his country, in Hungaria, that Morales is just useing you and other people, while you live there and you can't see that. I have nothing to do with any of you.
Is Rózsa Flores and not Flores..
Rózsa Flores was a traitor. That is the fate of traitors.
Do you have anything to back up your accusation? Please present it...
You're incompetent? Can't read the press and the Internet?
Accusation is different from FACT. If you're going to resort to name calling...then I question your intelligence AND age.
Please go by the facts and not by what the Bolivian Newspapers are trying to feed you.
What makes him a traitor? You haven't answered my question...
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=105&sid=1655488
http://www.kansascity.com/659/story/1154714.html
If Morales is sure about his government's actions he should be the first to say...come here's the proof of what your citizens did.
Anon 12:28:
You are making stuff up.
From the ABI--the government news agency:
"La Paz, 21 abr (ABI).- El presidente Evo Morales se dijo el martes a favor de una investigación internacional para establecer los alcances de un núcleo terrorista radicado en Bolivia y que incluso planificaba asesinarlo."
http://www.abi.bo/index.php?i=noticias_texto_paleta&j=20090421194257&l=200904210066_El_presidente_Evo_Morales,_el_martes_en_el_Palacio_Quemado_(J._Lirauze,_ABI)
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2009Apr21/0,4670,LTBoliviaPlot,00.html
why not?
"I'm able to process them myself," Morales told reporters. "How are they going to defend such people who came here to try to kill the president?"
He 'processed them' all right. I wonder if the two in San Pedro will die of a mysterious ailment.
yes, i hear many people "commit suicide" in jail :((((
10:47 AM
►Bolivian newspapers?◄ The newspapers are all against Morales and against the democratic rights of the Bolivian people. I assume that you are being ironic?
►What makes him a traitor?◄ You have not answered my question ... If you can not read and understand for yourself I can not help you.
Branko, do you know what Traitor means? Let me help you...... 1 : one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty
2 : one who commits treason (which he has not been proven of doing...ACCUSED and GUILTY are two completely different things)
Listen man, this guy is dead and it is great like that. Whether you like it or not.
You will be to...would you like me to clap then?
It's a matter of principle. I know we cannot change that...but we can get all the facts...and so far they are pointing in the direction of a massacre of innocent people. It's not a matter of like or dislike.
His orders to kill the ACCUSED terrorists showed disregard for the right to life and violated civilian rights established by the constitution. What kind of a leader is that?
Rozsa at least assassinated two journalists. He died the same way.
Was he jailed for that? Do you know that for a fact? If he were guilty of that, he would have been in jail. So far as I know, he had no criminal record. DO you have any proof to back that up?
What about the other 2 people killed? Have you considered their lives?
They were conspiring against the Bolivian state.
I guess the Evo critics would have had him do nothing until he was dead, or Costas was dead, or Terrazas and then go in huh? Cops in the US barge in and kill unarmed people all of the time. In an age of high powered weapons and nuts like Rozsa police often shoot first and ask questions later. It is a shoot or be shot mentality, and while not ideal, it is a reality. So the Bolivia police got out of hand perhaps. The critics expect Navy Seal performance on a third world budget. Get over it...
yeah, everyone who is a tourist in Bolivia and accomapaning Flores is "conspiracing against the Bolivian state"!! how idealistic.. not to mention that their dead bodies were in garbage bags. hope more truth came out from the other 2 prisoned. I think we are ants in this story and may discuss about what happend, those massacred never come back..
I wonder if Felix Rodriguez was there.....
(shoot below the neck boys...make it look like they died in combat)
The only thing they didnt do was take the bodies (after cuttin off hands) and bury them by the airport in Vallegrande
JD
They were conspiring against the Bolivian state.
12:11 PM
Rozsa Flores was asked by the people of Santa Cruz to help organize a defence...I guess all the citizens that would be protesting should be shot down as well...
You think so?
So the Bolivia police got out of hand perhaps. 12:22
PERHAPS???? you gotta be kidding me. They more than got out of hand. They slaughtered 3 people, one with his hands tied. There is no reasoning for that not in the third world not in a developed country. NOWHERE!
12:22 I agree they shoudl not wait until the president is killed.....but they could have easily arrested the men (sleeping in separate rooms) when they were 25 men strong. This incident is a huge stain on Bolivia and I hope the truth will come out. Would you be in the same position and have the same opinions if that was a close friend or family member?
"i said.." has right, friend or family member, every men's life is important no matter where he stays in this Earth.
morales has accused one entity or another of conspiring against him or plotting his death since he entered office. To my knowledge, he has yet to provide evidence of a single conspiracy. He has ejected the ambassador from the US, the DEA, USAID, he has accused innumerable persons and now he presides over the more than questionable death of three untried individuals. And he still refuses to provide any evidence of his accusations. I honestly don't have the slightest idea as to whether these three were culpable or not, but apparently it doesn't matter; being accused is enough under morales. Branko blindly defends this action with his own repetitions of morales' accusations. When asked to provide proof he says read the news. The news is by no means of one accord on this. That is to say that while accusations abound, the proof has been "slow" (to understate it) in coming. Were that not the case, it's unlikely that Ireland, Croatia and Hungary would be seeking information about the deaths of their citizens. Personally, I don't think it's too much to ask.
Looking through the FOXNews article posted by Juan 11:11 and looking at Rozsa-Flores' stated purpose to organize a militia to defend Santa Cruz against the national government, it becomes evident that morales may have had other motives to usher this man into his grave.
Agreed Norman!
►other motives to usher this man into his grave.◄
Other motives? He don't need anymore. A traitor must be executed!
►Rozsa Flores was asked by the people of Santa Cruz to help organize a defence...I guess all the citizens that would be protesting should be shot down as well...◄
The people of Santa Cruz? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !
That's the problem. A hundred people think they are Santa Cruz.
Evo Morales...is that you?
No. I am the ghost of Rozsa.
The Bolvian Vice President Liniera ACTUALLY COMMITED TERRORIST ACTS... he was arrested, went to a jury... tried, and convicted.... released now elected.
So much for democracy and rights with the new constitution.
►The Bolvian Vice President Liniera ACTUALLY COMMITED TERRORIST ACTS... he was arrested, went to a jury... tried, and convicted.... released now elected.
So much for democracy and rights with the new constitution.◄
Esta muy bien asi.
El perro de Rozsa esta mejor bajo tierra.
Who is this "Vice President Liniera" that he keeps talking about?
justice for those people killed, for their countries! I think they deserve to know the truth at last.
This post has been removed by the author.
The whole thing was started by the bombing of the Cardinal's residence, but there's no clear link that these individuals were involved. We know that he came to at least train a paramilitary force and may be to even lead it, although he claims he did not want to play Che in the jungle, and there's enough to see links to surmise that they would not been operating without the blessing of the civicos. They were probably under government surveillance since the Bolivian police is rarely this effective. There's more legs to the story on these last two points.
The regional summit and start of the electoral cycle were too great of stage not attract a little attention and play victim. We have yet to see any evidence that this was an attempt from the deceased to kill any specific leader. They had the very bad intentions, wanted to advance a secessionist force, yet they are clearly innocent from what Evo has asked Obama, Ireland, Hungary, and Croatia to apologize for. The timing and drama have been played very well by him, but it will only give dividends domestically and at the end only reinforce his base not increase it.
Things are now much worse for the opposition. The eastern elites have once again confirmed their despicable nature, so the even though Morales has only has 44% support going into December, the electorate has no alternative. Evo's regime will probably loose some friends in Europe for how this whole thing has been handled, but it is no different that the treatment Che got, so it will pass. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid came out guns blazing, but there are a lot of questions on the treatment these guys received.
What I really like to know is if these were the guys at the Cardinal's or if there are still more armed radical groups out there. A vote for Evo was a vote for change, nobody would have guessed that we would be at this juncture and having to debate the questions that we currently have in front of us. Unfortunately, there's still no viable choices going into December.
chasqui... the Hotel Manager of Las Americas confirmed that these guys were in their rooms and the car in the parking lot when the bombing took place. Interestingly enough the video surveillance system was apparently hacked into and the arrival of the 5 men was erased ...this information also from the manager.
I can assure you 100% that these were not the men Morales should be afraid of ... but he will see that himself soon enough.
Frank_IBC: Garcia Linera
It is obvious these bastards were up to no good, no one leaves a video will "in case he dies" if he is going to do tourism. These are sedicious acts and should be punished accordingly. I detest Evo, but even more anybody that tries to split apart my beloved country, under any excuse or pretense. Good riddance! to all like him and I hope they get the rest of the creeps financing these maggots. and let peace loving Bolivians be.
Well you know not everyone takes the stance you are 10:09 PM. People of Santa Cruz asked them to organize a defense... they were killed for plotting to assassinate the president. The disregard that your leader and soldiers have for human life is unbelievable....no matter which way you look at it. They didn't arrest the men and ask them questions....just killed them on the spot. What would have happened if someone was visiting the men in the hotel room....i suppose they would be shot too.
Your government is f'd up.
10:09 PM Peace Loving Bolivians??????? that is the oxymoron of the century. there is so much political violence going on here I just had to laugh when I read it.
Yeah and I'm sure the "people" of Santa cruz also gave them the fine 5 stars extended hotel acommodations, fine way to organize a BS "defense". And you forget not all of them were killed, 2 survived, so there goes your disregard for human life point.
WOW...I guess 3 people massacred is not enough for you. I'd like to see your reaction if it was someone dear to you that they shot dead. This was a staged show of Morales and he kept the two alive for this exact purpose...hopefully they will make it out alive to tell the story.
Dora... your ... points.... make.... you.... seem... unsure... of... yourself....
No I am quite sure of what I am talking about. Maybe the insecurity is within you...
Now that Fox News has reported it, maybe you y'all will believe it?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517502,00.html
Nyu-nyu! I told you so!
Two small points, neither of which are meant to defend any particular action - I don't think there's enough clear evidence (and wonder if there ever will be) to determine exactly what has happened here, but:
1) Garcia Linera was never tried and convicted. He was disappeared, tortured, imprisoned for 5 years without a trial, and remained under "provisional liberty" for another 8 years until the case was finally dropped around the time of the 2005 elections. Which brings me to point number...
2) I don't think partisanship helps when looking at what is wrong with the justice system in Bolivia. On the one hand, if people like Morales and Linera, who have been on the receiving end of human rights abuses in Bolivia, are now engaged in similar abusive behavior themselves, then shame on them. But the idea that any and all alleged abuses here are somehow sui generis characteristics of a Morales regime reflects a very short memory. Every Bolivian government in memory has been guilty of these kinds of abuses.
It bears repeating that I do not think this makes the abuse excusable (nor do I, regardless of ideology, pretend to know exactly what has happened in this case). But there are elections coming up, and while people have every right to withdraw support for Morales and the MAS based on their performance in office, it would be naive to think that the alternatives currently being offered are going to usher in an age of corruption-free, rights-respecting, rule-of-law government. Indeed, many of the major players have already been at the helm, and things were not good.
Neither Morales nor Linera were victims of ANY human right abuses. Linera's experience is no different than what most Bolivians experience when dealing with the justice system there. Have you ever watched the Telepolicial? Pelase watch it and you'll see that invariable the vast mayority of "suspects" are shown to the cameras beaten to a pulp. Visit the San Pedro prison and you'll see that some people have been there for years and no trial.
Morales if anything has always violated Human Rights, but never a victim. Let's see: torture and murder of foot soldiers in chapare, torture and murder of entrepeneurs in chapare, violating individuals right to free circulation, laying siege to cities and causing shortages of medicine, food and fuel. The only instance when he might have experienced some violations of his rights, were probably when he was selling ice creams in Buenos Aires (we know how inhumanely Bolivians are treated in Argentina) but other than that, I can't think of anything that could even come close.
I don't disagree that worse things have occurred in the history of Bolivia. But Evo and Linera are NOT VICTIMS, in fact they are the nefarious types that send innocents to march to their deaths so that they can gain some sort of political capital.
Finally
I think after all has been said, posted, linked, etc., it is safe to conclude that
THIS WAS NOT AN ASSASSINATION ATEMPTor am I wrong?
12:48 You are correct.
We don't give a damn about a potential attempt of assassination. What is important is that Rozsa is dead.
What matters is the disappearance of Rozsa.
And that's a good thing!
1:39 Yes, quiet the opposition. Kill anyone you don't agree with. So much for freedom of ideology. Welcome to the USSR.
Now Alfredo Rada is accusing Airsoft players of being terrorists; presenting a photo of their arms. He didn't notice the tips were all orange and isn't smart enough to know what that means.
http://www.lostiempos.com/diario/actualidad/nacional/20090423/fotos-enredan-a-ejecutivo-y-este-se-apoya-en-rozsa_4331_7111.html
If this wasn't so serious it would be a circus.
« Kill anyone you don't agree with. »
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssss !
@1:39 Great! And Branko keeps repeating the term "traitor". Where were your thoughts when you wrote, Branko? Were you perhaps projecting? Remember, there is always the question: "Cui prodest?". And what if others apart from the Bolivians were interested in the death of some of these people? Remember who has betrayed Monika Ertl? She died like Che, in Bolivia, but she was betrayed by Klaus Barbie, the Nazi war criminal, whom she was after. There is nothing new in saying that history repeats itself but we still keep forgetting to recognize patterns.
Anonymous 10:49am...see this?
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/apr/21/bolivian-president-rejects-requests-for-plot-info/
You know what's sad? looking at the pictures of the crime scene and at Rozsa Flores' face it looks like they were beaten. Aprad was tied up and then shot...They were probably interrogating him but he did not speak Spanish :( ugh......so they shot him.
« You know what's sad? »
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepppppppsss !!!
5:55 PM, 4:28 PM .... with an intellect like that I am flabbergasted that you know how to use a computer.
Hey Jim, we assume you read these posts, what about democracy? And justice? Why won't you speak up? Read the news and look at the pics: is that justice?
Please Jim, speak up! We NEED to hear from you.
12:48: I beg to differ. I think I know what I'm talking about - I was National Coordinator for Prison Ministry for the Catholic Church in Bolivia and spent several years working in San Pedro prison, met with members of congress over the abuses in the EGTK case specifically, and have met with both officials and inmates in over a dozen prisons around Bolivia. You are simply factually mistaken when you claim A) that Linera was never a victim of human rights abuses, and B) that what happened to him is no different from what happens to all prisoners. Reports on the case are available online. I don't feel the need to go into more detail here.
I also wonder why admitting that someone who was disappeared, tortured, and imprisoned for years without a trial may qualify as a victim of human rights abuse is seemingly impossible for some people. Is that historical fact somehow threatening to your political position? Perhaps that should be a clue to you. This is the first, and likely last, comment of mine in this space for a long, long time, because frankly I find it sad. The vast majority of those who post - especially regularly - see the world through a thick ideological gauze. Even the takes people have on basic facts are predetermined by their politics. I understand that "where you stand depends largely on where you sit," but throw name-calling, bickering, etc. into the mix and it's just boring. I found a couple of the links above (usually posted without a lot of extra commentary) to be helpful, but in general I find this space has degenerated into a kind of sado-masochistic wank-fest. Get a room.
You'll be back in a couple of weeks, Dan. We all know you.
Wow: Do you read the article you reference?
Las Vegas Sun, same link you posted up:
"Still, Morales said he had no objection to an international commission coming to Bolivia to investigate the matter, as his political opponents have requested. They accuse his leftist government of using the incident to distract Bolivian voters ahead of national elections in December."
It is very hard to take you seriously!
mgrace...
he refused at first and then backpaddled......
6:22. True. He must have gotten some 'political' advice and then changed his mind. After they cleaned up the mess at the hotel.
he wanted UNASUR to do help out, but they have no credibility.
Morales is highclass murderer, nothing else. It is very sad what's happening in this world nowadays. How long we are gonna tollerate this? Brothers, please, stop this somehow. Morales is living in some kind of "south american winetoo's revenge dream". Please, stop somehow this crazy asshole. He is killing innocent people. And lots of them. Please.
pray for morales, which means moralities, because he's a sinner, he's a murderer, he's a lier. Our EDU is now in heavens, God bless him.
And now the photos are smuggled out of San Pedro by a Hungarian journalist showing terrible bruises from the beatings Toazo endured by the Bolivian government.
Adding insult, the government has said they will prosecute the Hungarian journalist as he has threatened national security! Read: National pride.
But...few here care. They walk along like sheep to the slaughter.
Dear zsebian:
You must bless Morales, because it was through him that I'm in heaven.
Are you a representative of the Bolivian Tourism Office, you who calls himself EDU? Is this the new ad: "Visit Bolivia, we'll help you climb the Stairway to Heaven"? Whoever you are, you will allow me not to agree with your approach.
not sure who Dan really is (let's hope he's another of them white folks who is making sure us injuns get civilized), but the reports available on the Linera case only talk about him being held incomunicato and being roughed up. May the torture he's talking about is the one performed by El Mallku on the nightly basis while they were cellmates. He still brags about that to this day....
However, the bottom line is that this gov't is no better than any of their predecessors on the Human Rights arena.
Eduardo Rozsa Flores was a murderer. He got a much better death than the deaths he gave to journalists Christian Wurtenberg and Paul Jenks in Croatia.
He was a common animal, and got a better death than he deserved. Karma justice for having those two men killed. They were just journalists not killing machines like Flores and his goon squad in Croatia.
Watch the documentaries "dying for the truth" and the BBC docu "the dogs of war" Flores was a murderer and got what murderers deserve.
c'mon. neither of us don't know much about this thing happened in Bolivia, not to mention we don't konw Flores, so what are you talking about??
leave this thing how it is.
c'mon. neither of us don't know surely what happened in Bolivia beacause we weren't there, not to mention we don't know Flores. so what are you talking about? let's let things how thy are.
1:16 PM Had he been guilty in those cases, he would have been jailed.
"Watch the documentaries "dying for the truth" and the BBC docu "the dogs of war" Flores was a murderer and got what murderers deserve. "
FYI Soldiers fight in war and either they shoot or be shot....so your accusations make no sense.
Well..... Morales is such a comedian.... now he says that the HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION had a hand in plotting against him. He just does not stop. http://www.hirtv.hu/kulfold/?article_hid=268834 (in hungarian)
1:16 PM Was he tried and convicted of those murders? I don't think so... If he were guilty he would have been in jail.
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Article 11.
(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.
Charles Manson is still rotting in jail....how many people did he kill?
Enter discussions in English about the articles of the New Bolivian Constitution enacted by president Evo Morales Ayma on February 7th, 2009. Visit http://www.BolivianConstitution.com
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